L2/07-225

Pre-Preliminary Minutes of the UTC 112 / L2 209 Joint Meeting
Redmond, WA -- August 6 - 10, 2007
Hosted by Microsoft

UTC #112 Agenda
August 21, 2007


Monday, August 6, 2007

South Asian Subcommittee met all day.

Tuesday, August 7, 2007

South Asian Subcommittee and Scripts Subcommittee met all day. Recommendations of the South Asian Subcommittee are in L2/07-272.


Wednesday, August 8, 2007

12 full members in regular attendance.
4 institutional members in regular attendance.
1 supporting member in regular attendance.
Quorum is 8.5.
Full Members: Adobe, Apple, Google, HP, IBM, Justsystem(proxy), Microsoft, Sybase
Institutional Members: India, UCB
10 members represented.

Meeting opened at 9:45.

Some new docs registered.

Calendar update, added:

UTC #116 / L2 #213 - August 12-15, 2008, Redmond, host, Microsoft

Action Item Review

B.11.1 Issue 102: Review of Proposed Update Unicode Standard Annex #15: Unicode Normalization Forms
B.11.1.1 Feedback
B.11.1.1.1 General feedback [L2/07-250]
B.11.1.2 Document for review [L2/07-047]

[112-A1] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Extend the review date for PRI #102 to October 10,2007.

Ad hoc at lunch: to discuss Vedic mappings.

B.11.4 Issue 105: Review of Proposed Update Unicode Standard Annex #14: Line Breaking Properties
B.11.4.1 Feedback
B.11.4.1.1 General feedback [L2/07-250]
B.11.4.1.2 UTR 14 and U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE [Whistler, L2/07-209]
B.11.4.2 Document for review [Heninger, L2/07-253]

[112-A2] Action Item for Andy Heninger, Editorial Committee: Incorporate the text of L2/07-209R into proposed update UAX #14.

[112-A3] Action Item for Andy Heninger, Editorial Committee: Incorporate Ken Whistler's feedback from L2/07-250 into proposed update UAX #14.

[112-A4] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Extend the review date for PRI #105 to October 10, 2007.

B.11.5 Issue 107: Script property values for some characters in U+3200..U+33FF
B.11.5.1 Feedback
B.11.5.1.1 General feedback [L2/07-250]
B.11.5.2 Document for review [L2/07-249]

[112-C1] Consensus: Document in UAX #24 the characters in L2/07-249 (PRI #107) as having anomalous script assignments. Describe some of the implications for usage.

[112-A5] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update PU UAX #24 according to above consensus 112-C1, based on PRI #107 and L2/07-249. If the editorial committee finds other anomalous characters they can be added to the list.

[112-A6] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Close PRI #107 noting that no script property changes were made as a result of this PRI. L2/07-249.

B.12.2 Unicode Technical Standard #18: Unicode Regular Expressions
B.12.2.1 Comments on Unicode Regular Expressions [L2/07-250]

[112-A7] Action Item for Mark Davis, Markus Scherer: Prepare a proposal for clarifying how a regex should deal with matching Unicode sets in UTS #18. (See comments received in L2/07-250.)

B.10 CLDR
B.10.1 Liaison report [Davis L2/07-265]

Report from Mark Davis on progress and the CLDR 1.5 press release.

Lunch break 12:30 - 1:45, with Vedic ad-hoc meeting.

B.11.3 Issue 104: Review of Proposed Update Unicode Standard Annex #31: Identifier and Pattern Syntax
B.11.3.1.2 Remarks on the use of ZWJ and ZWNJ in the Brahmi and Perso-Arabic families [Lata, L2/07-255]
B.11.3.2 Document for review [L2/07-048]

[112-C2] Consensus: (1) Change PU UAX #31 so as to allow ZWJ/NJ in identifiers without reference to script. (2) Move the text about restrictions on ZWJ/NJ to UTS #39, rephrase in terms of visual distinction, and add scripts in response to feedback from India and others.

[112-A8] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Update PU UAX #31 to reflect above concensus 112-C2, so as to allow ZWJ/NJ in identifiers without reference to script.

[112-A9] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Update UTS #39 to reflect above concensus 112-C2, move the text about restrictions on ZWJ/NJ to UTS #39 from UAX #31.

B.11.3.1.3 L2/07-194, Daniel Yacob feedback.

[112-A10] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Respond to Daniel Yacob re L2/07-194 that the committee decided to take no action.

B.11.2 Issue 103: Review of Proposed Update Unicode Standard Annex #29: Text Boundaries
B.11.2.1.1 General feedback [L2/07-250]
B.11.2.2 Document for review [L2/07-147]

[112-C3] Consensus: Change the wordbreak property of U+2018 to "midletter" in Unicode 5.1.0.

[112-A11] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Change the wordbreak property of U+2018 to "midletter" in WordbreakProperty.txt and update table 3 in UAX #29 for Unicode 5.1.0.

[112-A12] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Reply to Philippe Verdy re his proposal in L2/07-250 (accepted for Unicode 5.1.0).

B.11.2.3 Extended grapheme cluster rules [Davis, L2/07-266]

[112-C4] Consensus: (1) Add a new section to UAX #29 defining the concept of an "extended base character" that includes base characters or hangul syllables. See D118. (2) Introduce the concept of an "extended combining character sequence" that is a superset of combining character sequence and default grapheme cluster.

[112-A13] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Add info from above consensus 112-C4 regarding "extended base character" and "extended combining character sequence" to update of UAX #29.

B.7.1 UCB Liaison

Debbie Anderson gave a report based on her liaison document.

Ended for the day at 5:40.


Thursday, August 9, 2007

Meeting opened at 9:45.

10 members represented: Adobe, Apple, Google, HP, IBM, Justsystem(proxy), Microsoft, Sybase, India, UCB.

B.14.5 Undo mirroring of quote marks [Kew, L2/07-241, Davis L2/07-273]

Long discussion. No decision. Will discuss again tomorrow.

B.1.3 WG2 action items [Umamaheswaran, L2/07-269]

Discussion. No action taken.

B.1.4.1.2 Adobe Japan IVD submission [Muller]

Brief discussion. No action taken at this time.

B.1.7 Proposal to replace 11 KP source references to existing ISO/IEC 10646:2003 (WG2 N3285) [DPRK NB, L2/07-208]

Brief discussion. No action taken.

B.3.3 Request for removal of characters in CJK C PDAM5 (WG2 N3280) [IRG, L2/07-245]

[112-C5] Consensus: Accept the removal of 67 CJK characters from CJK Extension C in PDAM5 and request the re-encoding of the remaining set to be contiguous.

[112-A14] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add comment "accept the removal of 67 CJK characters from CJK Extension C in PDAM5 and request the re-encoding of the remaining set to be contiguous " to ballot comments for PDAM 5. See L2/07-245.

[112-A15] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to reflect removal of 67 CJK characters from CJK Extension C in PDAM 5. See L2/07-245.

[112-A16] Action Item for John Jenkins: Convey to Dr Lu and the IRG the request to re-encode CJK Ext C after removal of 67 chars as per L2/07-245.

B.3.2 Request for glyph change in CJK C PDAM5 (WG2 N3281) [IRG, L2/07-244]

[112-A17] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add comment that UTC supports glyph changes for 14 CJK characters to ballot comments on PDAM 5.

B.3.4 Resolutions of IRG Meeting #28 [IRG, L2/07-246]

No action.

B.1.8.1 Proposal for a new edition of ISO/IEC 10646 (WG2 N3274) [Suignard, L2/07-217]

General presentation of the new proposed text by Michel Suignard.

B.15.2 South Asian Script Subcommittee [Muller, L2/07-272]

[112-A18] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the names list annotation for U+0D7C as MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU RR, and U+0D7D MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU L.

[112-A19] Action Item for Cibu Johny: Provide other independent evidence for Malayalam chillu ya.

[112-C6] Consensus: Update approval of the North Indian number forms based on the recommendations of the South Asian Subcommittee to change names, code positions, and create a new block U+A830..U+A83F Common Indic Number Forms, as specified in L2/07-238.

[112-A20] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to reflect approval of the North Indian number forms based on the recommendations of the South Asian Subcommittee to change names, code positions, and create a new block U+A830..U+A83F Common Indic Number Forms, as specified in L2/07-238.

[112-A21] Action Item for Deborah Anderson, Anshuman Pandey: Create updated L2/07-238 with updated proposal summary form based on above consensus 112-C6, and forward to WG2, and submit the font to the editor.

[112-A22] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add above consensus 112-C6 re North Indian number forms to our request for encoding in amendment 5, or a future amendment.

[112-C7] Consensus: Accept U+09FB Bengali Ganda Mark as documented in L2/07-192 for encoding in a future version of the standard.

[112-A23] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to reflect acceptance of U+09FB Bengali Ganda Mark as documented in L2/07-192 for encoding in a future version of the standard.

[112-A24] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add above consensus 112-C7 Bengali Ganda Mark to our request for encoding in amendment 5, or a future amendment.

[112-A25] Action Item for Deborah Anderson, Anshuman Pandey: Create an updated version of L2/07-192 (to correct "Pai") and add updated proposal summary form based on above consensus 112-C7, and forward to WG2, and submit the font to the editor.

[112-A26] Action Item for Ken Whister: Add an annotation to the effect that the U+02BC MODIFIER LETTER APOSTROPHE is appropriate for the uses described in the document L2/06-373.

[112-A27] Action Item for Swaran Lata: Provide a draft update to the Devanagari block description to cover U+02BC MODIFIER LETTER APOSTROPHE as appropriate for the uses described in the document L2/06-373.

[112-C8] Consensus: Accept the text in South Asian Subcommittee report L2/07-272 on TACE-16 as the charter to guide future discussion by the South Asian Subcommittee on Tamil issues.

[112-A28] Action Item for Eric Muller: Inform the South Asian subcommittee via its mail list of the above consensus 112-C8.

[112-A29] Action Item for Mark Davis: Respond to the Ministry of Gov't India and Tamil Nadu, correcting the Tamil report of the last UTC.

[112-A30] Action Item for Deborah Anderson, Anshuman Pandey: Revise the Kaithi document L2/07-199 to account for comments in the South Asian Subcommittee meeting and re-submit to UTC for the next meeting. (Deborah Anderson has recorded the comments from the meeting.) See also L2/07-272.

Lunch 1:00 - 2:00

D.1 Emoji
D.1.1 Working draft proposal for encoding Emoji symbols [Momoi, L2/07-257]
D.1.2 Japanese TV symbols [Suignard, L2/07-259]

Present on the telephone for Emoji discussion: Matthias Mittelstein, Markus Scherer, Kat Momoi.

Long discussion. Mark Davis to write up a document on symbol principles and some notes from the discussion. No formal actions taken.

B.14.7 Math property assignments for some characters [Sargent, L2/07-261]

[112-C9] Consensus: Add the characters listed in L2/07-261 to the "Other Math" property as documented, for Unicode 5.1.

[112-A31] Action Item for Mark Davis: Update Proplist.txt as per above consensus 112-C9 with the new other math characters from L2/07-261.

B.14.3.2 Shaping behavior of Burushaski characters and other Arabic additions [Anderson, L2/07-264]

[112-C10] Consensus: Give U+077A and U+077B the joining type "dual". Create a new joining group "Burushaski Yeh Barree" for these two characters.

[112-A32] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update ArabicShaping.txt with new joining group "Burushaski Yeh Barree", and give U+077A and U+077B the joining type "dual". (Reflect above consensus 112-C10. See L2/06-149 and L2/07-264.)

B.14.2 Script consistency issue for compatibility Greek accents [Whistler, L2/07-202]

[112-A33] Action Item for Lisa Moore: Add B.14.2 to the agenda for the next meeting.

[112-A34] Action Item for Mark Davis: Evaluate the proposal L2/07-202 on the script consistency issue with Greek accents before next (October 2007) UTC meeting.

End for the day at 5:30.


Friday, August 10, 2007

Meeting opened at 9:45.

9 members in attendance: Adobe, Apple, Google, IBM, Justsystem(proxy), Microsoft, Sybase, India, UCB.

B.14.5 Undo mirroring of quote marks [Kew, L2/07-241, Davis L2/07-273]

Picked up Bidi mirroring discussion from yesterday.

[112-C11] Consensus: Issue a corrigendum changing the characters U+2018..U+201F and U+301D..U+301F to have the bidi mirroring property "false".

[112-A35] Action Item for Rick McGowan, Editorial Committee: Create corrigendum #6 on changing the characters U+2018..U+201F and U+301D..U+301F to have the bidi mirroring property "false". Include affected data files in the corrigendum.

[112-A36] Action Item for Ken Whistler, Mark Davis: Update UnicodeData.txt and DerivedBinaryProperties.txt and BidiMirroring.txt in the beta directory ASAP. Include affected data files in the corrigendum #6 web page.

[112-A37] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add the change in bidi mirrored properties as per consensus 112-C11 to ballot comments on amendment 4.

B.15.3 Symbols Subcommittee [L2/07-274R]

[112-C12] Consensus: The UTC supports the work being done in the symbols subcommittee as documented in L2/07-274R.

HP arrived at 10:39. 10 members represented.

B.14.3.1 Shaping behavior of Arabic characters based on Farsi Yeh [Hallissy, L2/07-221]

[112-A38] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Take recommendations for joining type in L2/07-221 into account when creating the data files for the repertoire added in amendment 4.

C.11 Tangut Proposal Code Chart Update (see also proposal L2/07-143) [SEI, Cook, L2/07-229]

[112-C13] Consensus: Accept 5910 Tangut characters from L2/07-143R in a new block Tangut U+17000..U+1871F for encoding in a future version of the standard.

[112-A39] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Add 5910 Tangut characters from L2/07-143R to the pipeline. See above consensus 112-C13.

[112-A40] Action Item for Richard Cook: Forward Tangut proposal L2/07-143, L2/07-229 and other docs to WG2 for consideration at the next meeting.

C.6 Proposal for encoding additional Myanmar characters for Shan (WG2 N3277) [Everson, L2/07-205]

[112-C14] Consensus: Accept the repositioning of the characters shown in blue in L2/07-205 in the range U+1078..U+108F.

[112-A41] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add a ballot comment on the changed positions of characters shown in blue in L2/07-205 in the range U+1078.. U+108F to FPDAM 4.

[112-C15] Consensus: Accept the name change for U+108C MYANMAR SHAN COUNCIL TONE-4 to MYANMAR SHAN COUNCIL TONE-3.

[112-A42] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add a ballot comment on changed name of U+108C MYANMAR SHAN COUNCIL TONE-4 to MYANMAR SHAN COUNCIL TONE-3.

[112-C16] Consensus: Accept 4 Shan letters, 1 Shan tone mark, 2 Shan symbols, and a set of 10 Shan digits, as shown in yellow in document L2/07-205, for a future version of the Unicode standard.

[112-A43] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add 4 Shan letters, 1 Shan tone mark, 2 Shan symbols, and a set of 10 Shan digits, as shown in yellow in document L2/07-205, to list of characters requested outside of ballot comments.

[112-A44] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update pipeline to include Shan changes as in above consensus 112-C16 (4 Shan letters, 1 Shan tone mark, 2 Shan symbols, and a set of 10 Shan digits, as shown in yellow in document L2/07-205).

C.3.1 Preliminary proposal for encoding the Imperial Aramaic script (Revision 2) [Everson, L2/07-197]
C.3.2 Comments in support of encoding Imperial Aramaic [Anderson, L2/07-236]

[112-C17] Consensus: Accept 30 Imperial Aramaic characters as documented in L2/07-197 with new block Imperial Aramaic U+10840..U+1085F in a future version of the Unicode standard.

[112-A45] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to include acceptance of 30 Imperial Aramaic characters as documented in L2/07-197 with new block Imperial Aramaic U+10840..U+1085F.

C.7 Proposal to add two numbers for the Phoenician script (WG2 N3284) [Everson, L2/07-206]

[112-C18] Consensus: Accept two Phoenician numbers at U+1091A PHOENICIAN NUMBER TWO and U+1091B PHOENICIAN NUMBER THREE as documented in L2/07-206 for a future version of the Unicode Standard.

[112-A46] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline for two Phoenician numbers at U+1091A PHOENICIAN NUMBER TWO and U+1091B PHOENICIAN NUMBER THREE as documented in L2/07-206.

C.8 Proposal for encoding the Inscriptional Parthian, Inscriptional Pahlavi, and Psalter Pahlavi scripts (WG2 N3286) [Everson, Pournader, L2/07-207]

[112-C19] Consensus: Accept 30 Inscriptional Parthian characters in new block Inscriptional Parthian U+10B40..U+10B5F as documented in L2/07-207 for encoding in a future version of the Unicode Standard.

[112-C20] Consensus: Accept 27 Inscriptional Pahlavi characters in new block Inscriptional Pahlavi U+10B60..U+10B7F as documented in L2/07-207 for encoding in a future version of the Unicode Standard.

[112-A47] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to include 30 Inscriptional Parthian characters in new block Inscriptional Parthian U+10B40..U+10B5F and 27 Inscriptional Pahlavi characters in new block Inscriptional Pahlavi U+10B60..U+10B7F, both as documented in L2/07-207.

[112-A48] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Relay feedback from scripts subcommittee to Michael Everson re Psalter Pahlavi. (Psalter Pahlavi should be opened for further feedback. The subcommittee is not happy with the dot-above and dot-below. Request to remove them from the document.)

C.13 Preliminary proposal to add the Samaritan alphabet to the BMP (WG2 N3291) [SEI, Everson, Shoulson, L2/07-231]

[112-A49] Action Item for Peter Constable: Relay input to WG2 that Samaritan is not ready for encoding.

[112-A50] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Open discussion on Unicore list regarding architectural issues with Samaritan that require UTC feedback.

C.18 Request to Remove Bamum from Amendment 5 [Anderson, L2/07-239]

[112-C21] Consensus: UTC supports the request to remove Bamum from amendment 5 pending further evidence of consensus from the stakeholder community.

[112-A51] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add the request to remove Bamum to ballot comments on amendment 5.

[112-A52] Action Item for Deborah Anderson: Forward L2/07-239 (Request to Remove Bamum from Amendment 5) to WG2 for consideration at their next meeting.

C.10 Proposal to encode characters for Uyghur Orkhun (WG2 N3258) [China NB, L2/07-216]

[112-A53] Action Item for Peter Constable: Relay input to WG2 that Uyghur Orkhun WG2 N3258 is not ready for addition to a ballot.

A.5.1 Approval of minutes
A.5.1.1 Joint Meeting UTC 111/L2 208 [L2/07-118R]

[112-C22] Consensus: Approve the minutes for UTC #111 as documented in L2/07-118R.

B.14.8 Discuss the whitespace property of Ogham Space Mark U+1680

Discussion ensued. No action taken.

B.14.6 Middle Dots
B.14.6.1 Middle Dots and Don'ts [Whistler, L2/07-258]
B.14.6.2 Non-blank spaces [Freytag, L2/07-260]

Long discussion.

Lunch 12:30 - 1:30.

[112-C23] Consensus: Accept for encoding U+2E37 WORD SEPARATOR MIDDLE DOT in a future version of the Unicode standard.

[112-A54] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to reflect acceptance U+2E37 WORD SEPARATOR MIDDLE DOT for encoding in a future version of the Unicode standard.

[112-A55] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add to comments on Avestan to move U+10B38 to U+2E37, and change the name to WORD SEPARATOR MIDDLE DOT.

C.4 Representation of Greek mute iota (response to L2/07-068) [Hudson, L2/07-198]
C.4.1 Input on Greek mute iota [Anderson, L2/07-263]

Discussion. No conclusion. Deferred to next meeting.

[112-A56] Action Item for Lisa Moore: Put C.4 and C.4.1 on the agenda for next meeting.

UTC adjourned at 2:18. L2 reconvened at 2:23.


UTC Attendance

Person                                 Representing         E-mail Address
Deborah AndersonU C Berkeleydwanders@sonic.net
E.K. Bharat BhushanIndia Gov'tbharatbhushan@mit.gov.in
Susan Colowick Utilikasmc@utilika.org
Peter ConstableMicrosoftpetercon@microsoft.com
Mark DavisGooglemark.davis@google.com
LaurenĊ£iu Iancu selfiancu@quickref.info
John JenkinsApplejenkins@apple.com
Michael KaplanMicrosoftmichka@microsoft.com
Swaran LataIndia Gov'tslata@mit.gov.in
Will LewisMicrosoft wilewis@microsoft.com
Rick McGowanUnicoderick@unicode.org
Lisa MooreIBMlisam@us.ibm.com
Steve MoranU of Wstiv@u.washington.edu
Eric MullerAdobeemuller@adobe.com
Jonathan PoolUtilikapool@utilika.org
Lynn RugglesHPlynn_ruggles@hp.com
Murray SargentMicrosoftmurrays@microsoft.com
Peter ScharfBrown Univpeter_scharf@brown.edu
Shawn SteeleMicrosoftshawn.steele@microsoft.com
Michel SuignardMicrosoftmichelsu@microsoft.com
V S UmamaheswaranIBMumavs@ca.ibm.com
Ken WhistlerSybasekenw@sybase.com
   
By Phone
   
Richard CookU C Berkeleyrscook@berkeley.edu
Michael Everson Evertypeeverson@evertype.com
Matthias Mittelstein SAPMatthias.Mittelstein@sap.com
Kat Momoi Google 
Marcus SchererGoogle 
   

Members Represented

  August 6     August 7     August 8     August 9 August 10
  SouthAsia    Scripts Plenary
Full      
1. Adobe Systems, Inc.yesyesyesyesyes
2. Apple, Inc.yesyesyesyesyes
3. Denic e. G.nononono no
4. Google, Inc.yesyesyesyes yes
5. Hewlett Packardnoyesyesyes yes
6. IBM Corporationyesyesyesyes yes
7. JustSystem Corporationyes (proxy)yes (proxy)yes (proxy) yes (proxy) yes (proxy)
8. Microsoft Corporationyesyesyesyesyes
9. Oracle Corporationnononono no
10. SAP AGnononoyes no
11. Sun Microsystems, Inc.nonononono
12. Sybase, Inc.yesyesyesyesyes
13. Yahoo!nononono no
       
Institutional       
1. India, MITyesyesyesyes yes
2. Pakistan, NLAnononono no
3. Tamil Nadu, Gov'tnononono no
4. UC Berkeleyyesyesyesyes yes
       
Supporting       
1. Basis Technology Corp.nononono no
2. Monotype Imaging Corp.nononono no