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 Post subject: Colon and Semicolon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:01 am
Posts: 71
Fullwidth colon and semicolon has a little complex background.

If we looked at existing fonts, rules, and publications, colons are sideways in Japanese while upright in Chinese.

Use of semicolon in vertical text flow isn't well defined, so most fonts don't include vertical form for semicolon, so they appear in upright in existing systems. JLTF believes it's simply because no one expects authors to use semicolons in vertical text flow, but it doesn't stand anymore when readers can change text flow. JLTF believes that, if they were forced to use semicolon in vertical flow, they'd set them in sideways; i.e., in the same orientation as colon.

So, for the following code points:
FE54 SMALL SEMICOLON
FE55 SMALL COLON
FF1A FULLWIDTH COLON
FF1B FULLWIDTH SEMICOLON

Regarding the EAC, currently FE54/FE55 are cl-27. These two are EAW=W and that should be cl-05.

Regarding the EAO, the first option we could take is to make all of them as T, and within Table 3, show both options for font designers to choose. Font designers might choose upright for Chinese fonts and sideways for Japanese.

The other option is to assign different subclass for the 4 code points, so that upper layers can set differently depends on author's preferences or language settings.

My personal preference is the first option, but there may be opinions to prefer the second to make a consistent orientation regardless of the font.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Colon and Semicolon
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:25 pm
Posts: 76
kojiishi wrote:
Use of semicolon in vertical text flow isn't well defined, so most fonts don't include vertical form for semicolon, so they appear in upright in existing systems. JLTF believes it's simply because no one expects authors to use semicolons in vertical text flow, but it doesn't stand anymore when readers can change text flow.


Rephrased:

- readers can choose the orientation therefore we need to settle the handling of colon in vertical text

An alternative approach:

- readers can choose the orientation therefore we need to be able to record in documents different text for horizontal and vertical presentations

Clearly, most of the text will be the same in both orientations, so the alternate versions need to be local.

Such machinery seems to be needed for

JLREQ wrote:
In vertical writing mode, symbols for units are usually described with katakana (cl-16), such as センチメートル (centimeter) or センチ(abbreviation of centimeter in katakana, "senchi"). In horizontal writing mode, the International System of Units (SI) is usually used, such as "cm".


Something like "<orientationalternate><horizontal>cm</horizontal><vertical>センチ</vertical></orientationalternate>"

(I hope we will not spend month discussing whether the <horizontal> is really needed :lol:)


Of course, we still need to settle the colon somehow.


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 Post subject: Re: Colon and Semicolon
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:01 am
Posts: 71
It looks like the way I wrote mislead you, sorry about that.

My question is, what to do with colon, where Japanese wants it sideways while Chinese upright. Should we have a category for language dependent orientation?

Similar problem exists in double-quote, where Chinese government decided to replace to double corner brackets in vertical flow.

What I wanted to say above was that, semicolon's orientation isn't as clear as colon, but we should treat semicolon in the same way as we do colon.

I agree that authors should be able to overwrite default UTR50 behavior, and even having different text by text flow is a good addition we need to think about in near future, but I guess that's up to application layers, not in UTR50. It could be nice to add a control code in Unicode level though.


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