Re: ASCII-ization (was Re: Glyphs of new Unicode 3.0 symbols)

From: Mark Davis (
Date: Fri Nov 27 1998 - 18:19:38 EST

>In a mixed list of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean names, such as the Go
>database of international competitions and top-ranked players, your
>proposal for a single standard romanization fails the laugh test. In the

"My proposal" certainly does not fail the laugh-test, since I never proposed
anything of the sort.

You are reading much more into my message than I actually wrote. At no point
did I advocate a single standard romanization. Nor did I ever exclude
transliterations into other scripts besides Latin. Perhaps you are mixing my
message up with other ones.


Edward Cherlin wrote:

> At 12:36 PM -0800 11/25/98, Mark Davis wrote:
> >There are a few different applications for transliteration.
> Well, of course. I *said* I had been using a variety of romanizations
> myself. My point is only that there can be no _standard_ romanization of
> any language satisfactory to everyone--not even the speakers of one other
> language, much less the world community. Besides, if we start on that, we
> can't stop until we can render all of Unicode in Cyrillic, Arabic, Zhuyin
> (Bopomofo), Japanese kana, and Devanagari, at least. We Latinates can't
> assign ourselves a privileged position in these matters.
> Another issue: should the preferred ASCII-ization of U+4E00 be
> yi1 Chinese putonghua, Pinyin
> i1 Chinese p'ut'unghua, Wade-Giles
> il Korean, ROK standard romanization
> iti Japanese, On, Yale romanization
> ichi Japanese, On, Hepburn romanization
> hitotu Japanese, Kun, Yale romanization
> hitotsu Japanese, Kun, Hepburn romanization
> or what?
> >One is to
> >have an alternate reading, so that if I am looking at a database with
> >foreign names in it, I can choose a view whereby I get *some* notion
> >of what their names would look like in a romanization.
> Of course you are correct in asking for romanization of foreign names or
> texts in a globalized application, but ask the developers, not the Unicode
> standard, for something appropriate. The romanization used has to be
> application-specific, since it will depend on the language of the material
> and the preferred language of the user.
> In a mixed list of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean names, such as the Go
> database of international competitions and top-ranked players, your
> proposal for a single standard romanization fails the laugh test. In the
> recently completed Japanese Meijin (ming2ren2, myeongin, Illustrious
> Person) challenge match, the Korean title holder beat the Chinese winner of
> the international Meijin challengers tournament. Which romanization would
> you use to approximate the names involved?
> For even more fun, try romanizing the Chinese, Korean, and Japanese
> approximations of each others' names in CJK, Katakana, and Hangeul.
> "Kobayashi" in Japanese (literally, Littlewood) becomes khopayashi in one
> romanization of hangeul, or ko2ba1ya1xi3 in pinyin of one possible
> Sinicization. Of course the Chinese are more likely to read the name
> directly as Xiao3lin2.)
> I am currently working on a terminology database for the game of go in
> Chinese, Korean, Japanese and English, i.e. such Romanized entries as
> wei2qi2 Chinese
> baduk Korean
> wigi Korean
> igo Japanese
> go English
> to accompany the entries in Hanzi (Traditional Chinese and Simplified
> Chinese), Zhuyin, Hanja, Hangeul, Kana, and Kanji+Kana.
> >This doesn't imply that transliteration is a replacement for the
> >original names in the original script--but as an adjunct it is quite
> >useful, and we get many inquiries about it.
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >---Edward Cherlin <> wrote:
> >>
> [snip]
> >>
> >> NO WAY.
> >>
> >>The world community does not accept transliterations, romanizations, or
> >>ASCIIizations designed by and for English speakers without a fight, and
> >>they are quite right not to do so.
> [snip]
> --
> Edward Cherlin President
> Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail
> Help outlaw Spam. <>
> Talk to us at <>


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