RE: EA width, Latin punctuation and fonts

Date: Sun Dec 12 1999 - 12:45:19 EST

I forgot to say one thing.

The Chinese GB character set should have a code point for what I called the
"dot-like hyphen". Peter, why don't you check what Unicode character the GB
character has been mapped to in the official Unicode mapping files?

That mapping could be sort of an implicit semi-official answer to your

_ Marco

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cimarosti Marco
> Sent: 1999 December 12, Sunday 18.27
> To: 'Chris Pratley'; Unicode List
> Subject: RE: EA width, Latin punctuation and fonts
> Chris Prately wrote:
> >Actually, Marco's explanation is for Japanese only. Peter, you are
> >describing a standard glyph variant for Traditional Chinese of
> >FULL STOP (U+3002). The Traditional Chinese style is to centre the glyph
> in
> >the character box. The Japanese style is to place the glyph at the bottom
> >left in horizontal layout, and upper left in glyphs rotated for vertical
> >layout. The glyph does not need to move in Chinese vertical layout. The
> same
> >is true for IDEOGRAPHIC COMMA U+3001.
> No, it applies to both Chinese and Japanese (not sure about Korean or Yi).
> Both languages use both characters, for the same purposes.
> 1) CJK full stop.
> It has the same meaning as Western full stop, but it looks like an *empty*
> circle. In horizontal writing it is normally in the lower-left side of the
> square cell; it does not need a blank after it because it already has
> plenty white space on its right side. In vertical writing it is normally
> near the top of the cell and horizontally centered or, alternatively, on
> the left side. An alternative glyph, that is used in both horizontal and
> vertical writing, has the mark centered in the cell. As you suggest, all
> this is true also for commas (there are 2 in CJK) and most other
> punctuation marks ("!", "?", "...", ";", ":", etc.).
> --Encoding--. Definitely seems to me that it should be U+3002 (IDEOGRAPHIC
> FULL STOP). If Peter wants his font to be usable in both vertical and
> horizontal layout, he could decide to center the glyph in the cell.
> However this centered form is quite obsolete, especially in horizontal
> writing. The best thing, if possible, would be two have two contextual
> glyphs: one vertical (top, centered) and one horizontal (bottom, left).
> Same applies for commas and other punctuation.
> 2) Dot-like hyphen, or raised dot.
> It is used to separate words in foreign person and place names (as CJK
> scripts use no spaces between words). This is a *filled* circle and is
> *always* in the center of the cell, regardless that the text is horizontal
> or vertical.
> --Encoding--. Both U+00B7 (MIDDLE DOT) and U+30FB (KATAKANA MIDDLE DOT)
> seem reasonable candidates. However, in an average CJK font, U+00B7 would
> be half-width, so it would not be a handy choice (BTW, how does Unicode
> define this character now? Narrow, wide or ambiguous?). Moreover, the
> semantics and history of U+00B7 is totally unrelated with far eastern
> script (I for one tend to see it as a Catalan diacritic mark, as seen in
> the name of one of the most famous streets in Barcelona, the Avenida
> Parallel). I would rather suggest U+30FB because it seems to have exactly
> the required semantics, despite its misleading name, and despite the fact
> that it has been put in the katakana block, rather than in CJK Symbols and
> Punctuation, where it logically belonged.
> Chris Prately also wrote:
> >If you apply the right fonts to this text, you'll see what I mean:
> >-oezEUR' (Japanese, display in Japanese Mincho)
> >-oe<EUR' (Traditional Chinese, display in Ming Li)
> >The katakana middle dot is a Japanese thing unrelated to what you are
> seeing
> >in those Chinese documents.
> What I see in these two string is the CJK full stop. I thought that
> Peter's question was rather more about the other character being
> discussed.
> If my email does not kill the poor characters before they reach you, see
> examples of "dot-like hyphens" (or KATAKANA MIDDLE DOTs) as they would be
> actually used in Chinese and Japanese to transliterate a Western name and
> surname ("Marco Cimarosti", in this case :-)
> - Chinese (simplified): ???????? (Make Qimaluositi)
> - Japanese (katakana): ?????????? (Maako Timarosutei)
> Ciao. Marco

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