In case anyone is (further) confused by this thread, I can only reaffirm that the normal name of our language in English, as every Irish person will confirm, is "Irish". (Interestingly, in Michael's previous response, which arrived before mine, he writes, "the rule in Irish is ..." which shows his spontaneous, as distinct from contrived, usage.) It is a mystery to me why Michael and his partner promote this hybrid term, which is both baffling and offensive to those Irish people who are aware of it. As this discussion is now seriously "off topic", and as Michael is a decent man, I have no intention of pursuing it further here. Séamas Ó Brógáin ---------------------------------------------------------------- SEIRBHÍSÍ LEABHAR 15 Céide na Coirre Báine Seanchill Co. Bhaile Átha Cliath +353 1 2721181 Éirinn/Ireland leabhair@iol.ie http://www.iol.ie/~leabhair ----------------------------------------------------------------