Re: OS X 10.2.4 non-standard & unconstitutional

From: Michael Everson (
Date: Mon Apr 14 2003 - 18:28:25 EDT

  • Next message: Michael Everson: "Re: OS X 10.2.4 non-standard & unconstitutional"

    At 22:51 +0100 2003-04-14, Séamas Ó Brógáin wrote:

    >I know this is off topic here; but as it has been raised, I must add
    >my voice [...] and confirm that calling Irish "Gaelic" is not only
    >incorrect but widely regarded in Ireland as offensive. Mr Everson
    >knows this.

    I know plenty of people who take no offense at it whatsoever. I
    myself do not have a sense for it being offensive, having lived in
    Ireland and dealt with Irish-speaking circles for 13 years now. I
    don't myself "know" that it is widely regarded in Ireland as
    offensive. I know that *you* say that it is, and said so three years

    >The fact (if it is a fact) that people in other countries like to
    >call our language by another name is irrelevant.

    In my experience, most people world-wide do not know that Ireland has
    a language other than English, or if they do, they do not associate
    the word "Irish" with it. Many the time I have talked to people and
    had to gloss the word "Irish" with "Gaelic" in order to be understood.

    >The fact that people use this option in OS 10 (myself among them) is
    >irrelevant. It is incorrectly named and should be fixed.

    What I have done is explain to you how the name came to be used in
    the software. At the same time, note that of the following

    Ireland (English)
    Ireland (Irish)

    Ireland (English)
    Ireland (Gaelic)

    it was felt that the former pair was rather less clear (the words
    "English" and "Irish" can both refer to language or nation after all)
    -- for the majority of Mac users -- than the latter. It wasn't *my*
    doing and it was arrived at on reasonable grounds and by
    Irish-speakers too. Please do not shoot the messenger.

    I do not myself know how to resolve this issue, if issue it is.
    Certainly Marion's hostile claims about "anticonstitutional insult"
    and "US pressure" made on another forum are not conducive to any sort
    of resolution. One notes that no one else has objected to this in the
    nine months the software has been available.

    Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  *

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