Ligatures in Turkish and Azeri, was: Accented ij ligatures

From: Peter Kirk (
Date: Thu Jul 10 2003 - 06:08:09 EDT

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    On 1st July Philippe Verdy wrote:

    > If fonts still want to display dots on these characters, that's a
    > rendering problem: there already exists a lot of fonts used for
    > languages other than Turkish and Azeri, which do not display any
    > dot on a lowercase ASCII i or j (dotted), and display a dot on their
    > uppercase ASCII versions (normally not dotted with classic fonts)...
    > The absence or presence of these dots is then seen as "decorative"
    > even if these fonts are not suitable for Turkish and Azeri, but this is
    > clearly not an encoding problem in the Unicode encoded text,
    > and not a problem either for case conversions.

    Turkish and Azeri do not use the ij ligature. The sequences i - j and
    dotless i - j do occur (rarely, as j is a rare letter in both languages)
    but are treated as separate letters.

    In Turkish and Azeri the sequences f - i and f - dotless i both occur,
    and are fairly frequent. So it is inappropriate in these languages to
    use fi ligatures in which the dot on the i is lost or invisible, at
    least where the second character is a dotted i. Has any thought been
    given to this issue? Is it possible to block such ligation on a
    language-dependent basis?

    Also it is certainly possible that in dictionaries etc in these
    languages stress might be marked by an accent on the vowel - as
    certainly in the older Cyrillic Azeri just as in Bulgarian as just
    posted. In this case the dot should not be removed from the dotted i
    when the stress mark is added, so that the distinction from dotless i is
    not lost. Has that issue been addressed? (In my Latin script Azeri
    dictionary stress is marked by a spacing grave accent before the vowel,
    but this may have been done precisely to work around this problem.)

    Peter Kirk

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