Re: Representative glyphs for combining kannada signs

From: Philippe Verdy (
Date: Thu Mar 16 2006 - 06:45:27 CST

  • Next message: Philippe Verdy: "Re: Representative glyphs for combining kannada signs"

    You say that these positions should not be shown more accurately, but this is what you have done in your attached PDF file, where they are shown accurately attached to the upper-right corner of a dashed circle.

    I note also that your PDF displays additional positions (in rose cells) normally not assigned in Unicode, by relocating there some characters that are encoded else where:
    * ZWJ, at U+0C8A
    * ZWNJ, at U+0C8B
    * DOTTED CIRCLE, at U+0CCE (in fact displays a dashed circle)
    * SPACE, at U+0CCF
    (I don't think this is a encoding proposal, but something you did internally with some font design)

    But I wonder what are those additional positions you included:
    * HalZWJ, at U+0CD0
    * HalZWNJ, at U+0CD1
    * ZWJHal, at U+0CD2

    I note also that there are four other characters:

    * a complex letter or symbol at U+0CF2 that I can't recognize precisely (looks like U+0C95 KANNARA LETTER KA with a combining diacritic below, similar to a small U+C8E KANNARA LETTER E but still different) -- however I think this must be something else, and that this combined diacritic represents a half-consonnant modifier. Could it be a variant half-form of U+CB5 KANNARA LETTER VA, so that the composed letter would be a missing LETTER KVA? Or could it beanimport from U+D28 MALAYALAM LETTER NA, so that the combination shown would be a missing KANNARA LETTER KNA (which interestingly matches the name of the Kannara script when the first small a sound is not pronounced) ?

    * a complex letter or symbol at U+0CF3 (looks like U+0C9C KANNARA LETTER JA with a combining diacritic below, similar to a small U+C9E KANNARA LETTER NYA): is the composite effectively a missing KANNARA LETTER JNYA?

    * a J-shaped diacritic (quite similar to U+0C43 TELUGU VOCALIC COMBINING R), combining on the right and below the dashed circle. Given that there's currently no VOCALIC R in the current Kannaraencoding but only a VOCALIC RR, am I right here ?

    * a F-shaped diacritic, combining on the right of the sample dashed circle (looks much like a variant of U+0CEF KANNARA DIGIT NINE). Could it be a variant of the existing VIRAMA (or halant)?

    Are these 4 additional positions proposals for new encodings, given that the current standard does not define any kannara diacritics combining below base letters?

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Vinod Kumar" <>
    To: "Philippe Verdy" <>
    Cc: <>
    Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:24 AM
    Subject: Re: Representative glyphs for combining kannada signs

    On 3/15/06, Philippe Verdy <> wrote:

    > So the "representative glyphs" of the following dependant vowel signs are not very significant: the dotted circle below them should be decentered to the left, the glyph for the sign being shown attached to its upper right corner:

    The issue here is how accurate the positioning of the vowel signs
    should be. In a representative description, placing the sign 'above'
    the consonant is good enough rather than a more accurate but more
    detailed 'top right corner' specification. The tradeoff arises even in
    Devanagari. The vowel sign E (U+947> will appear centered over centre
    stemed shapes like Ka, but will be towards right for consonants with a
    right stem (like Kha U+916).

    So I feel that the positioning of the signs need not be specified much
    more accurately than just 'top', 'bottom', 'left' or 'right'.

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