RE: Fish (was Re: Marks)

Date: Sat Sep 29 2007 - 10:20:07 CDT

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    Quoting Philippe Verdy <>:

    > Depending on Christian beliefs, the symbol has lots of other
    > possible origins, including several "paraboles" in the life of
    > Jesus, but also some even older Paganic origin where the symbol was
    > also represent the Mother Goddess, source of the creation (with a
    > sexual relation with a female vulve that the fish symbol also
    > represented).
    > There's some evidence that the Fish symbol used in the first three
    > centuries by Christians was not inspired by any Greek letters, and
    > was not present in Greece where Christianity developed only later,
    > without being threatened by persecution. On the opposite, the fish
    > was used in Egypt, in the Middle-East within Semitic populations,
    > and in Rome, before the official conversion of the Roman Empire to
    > Christianism.
    > Although the Bible was translated to Greek very early, it's highly
    > improbable that Greek was widely used in the early clandestine
    > development of christianism in the Roman Empire. Correct me if I'm
    > wrong, but the association of the fish with the abbreviated Greek
    > name of Jesus Christ (Chi-Rho or Iota-Chi) may have appeared only
    > much later, but the fish symbol was much older.

    Greek was the lingua franca of much of the Roman empire, including
    Rome iteslf, Julius Ceasar probably said his last words in Greek not
    Latin. The New testament of the bible was written was Greek, the old
    testament was translated into Greek long before Christ was born.

    Whilst the origin of the fish symbol itself may be a matter of debate,
    that most of the early chrisyians knew Greek is easily demonstrated.

    John K

    > My opinion is that its Pananic origin is more probable, and was more
    > compatible with the dominant Roman ruling in the regions where
    > Christianism first developed; in addition the symbol is also related
    > to other non-Christian symbolism in other areas, where the symbol
    > was associated to a Creator God or Goddess, source of life, for
    > example in old Indian religions or cultures. In all this symbolism
    > the fish was represented in a extremely simplified way, just like
    > the two basic curves that make the "<><" or the turned "()".
    > Then my feeling is that the symbol initially represented the
    > Creator, God, father of Jesus, but not directly Jesus-Christ or the
    > Salvior, and was not related to Chi-Rho or Iota-Chi.

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