Re: CLDR Usage of Gregorian Calendar Era Terms: BC and AD -- Can we please have "CE" and "BCE" ?

From: Mark Davis (mark.davis@icu-project.org)
Date: Wed Dec 19 2007 - 12:42:39 CST

  • Next message: John Hudson: "Re: CLDR Usage of Gregorian Calendar Era Terms: BC and AD -- Can we please have "CE" and "BCE" ?"

    The goal for CLDR is to use the most customary, recognizable terms for
    whatever the language in question. You can file a bug on the CLDR site
    presenting evidence that CE and BCE are more commonly used and understood
    than AD and BC.

    That does not, of course, prevent a spirited discussion on this list or
    (perhaps more appropriately, cldr-users@unicode.org).

    Mark

    On Dec 19, 2007 9:12 AM, Ed Trager <ed.trager@gmail.com> wrote:

    > Also, I am very interested in seeing what people on this list consider
    > as appropriate translations and corresponding abbreviations for
    > "Common Era" and "Before Common Era" for various languages ...
    >
    > On Dec 19, 2007 12:01 PM, Ed Trager <ed.trager@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > Hi, everyone,
    > >
    > > For the Gregorian calendar in CLDR, two --and as far as I am aware
    > > only two-- era terms are defined:
    > >
    > > BC - "Before Christ"
    > > AD - Anno Domini (="year of the lord")
    > >
    > > Is it really the case that these are the only two era terms available in
    > CLDR?
    > >
    > > While these two era terms quite naturally arose from the fact that the
    > > Gregorian calendar was promulgated by the Christian church, many
    > > --myself included-- will now argue that these two terms should be
    > > supplanted by the completely secular terms, "CE - Common Era" and "BCE
    > > - Before Common Era".
    > >
    > > While there are many grounds on which one can argue in favor of "CE"
    > > and "BCE" over the traditional "AD" and "BC", perhaps the simplest and
    > > least divisive is the simple fact that the two terms "BC" and "AD" are
    > > not accurate, since most religious historians now believe that Jesus
    > > of Nazareth was born sometime between 7 and 4 BCE.
    > >
    > > Given the now world-wide use of the Gregorian Calendar as a secular
    > > standard for measuring dates in every realm of endeavor beyond the
    > > Church, it seems uncharacteristically anachronistic that the CLDR
    > > defines only these two era terms:
    > >
    > > => At the very least, these two terms need to be supplanted by the
    > > modern, secular terms, "CE - Common Era" and "BCE - Before Common Era"
    > > This should be done immediately.
    > >
    > > => In the very best case, the anachronistic terms "BC" and "AD"
    > > could be removed from CLDR altogether.
    > >
    > > However, I --and I am sure many of you also-- realize that it may be
    > > too much to ask for the outright removal of the anachronistic terms
    > > "BC" and "AD". So rather than argue about removal of "BC" and "AD",
    > > can we at least all agree that "CE" and "BCE" need to be added to CLDR
    > > as soon as possible?
    > >
    > > Note that in some locales, use of "Common Era" and "Before Common Era"
    > > is already well established. For example, the Chinese already use the
    > > term "公元" which means "common era" and "公元前" which means "before
    > > common era". So, for the "zh" Chinese locales, we may conclude that
    > > the "values" are already correct, but the "keys" are wrong. However,
    > > in many other locales, translations of --or customary equivalents
    > > for-- "BC" and "AD" naturally enough continue to reference the birth
    > > of Jesus of Nazareth.
    > >
    > > The addition of "CE" and "BCE" to CLDR will greatly facilitate the
    > > efforts of localization specialists who wish to produce localized
    > > software and electronic services for the widest possible audiences
    > > without having to worry about offending anyone whose religious beliefs
    > > and preferences may differ from those which have been traditionally
    > > dominant in the Western world.
    > >
    > > Best - Ed
    > >
    >
    >
    >

    -- 
    Mark
    


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