Re: Emoji: emoticons vs. literacy

From: Michael Everson (
Date: Fri Jan 09 2009 - 19:29:43 CST

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    On 10 Jan 2009, at 00:58, Kenneth Whistler wrote:

    > Michael Everson wrote:
    >> The national flags, and the STATUE OF LIBERTY and TOKYO TOWER seem
    >> very much out of scope, unless the door is being opened to STONEHENGE
    >> and NEWGRANGE and all the other flags.
    > They are in the emoji set, and in those particular cases
    > (except the STATUE OF LIBERTY) occur in more than one of the
    > vendor sets and are cross-mapped to each other. Hardly a case of
    > being "out of scope".

    They may be in scope of emoji implementations but that does not meant
    they satisfy other requirements for encoding.

    > As for the particulars, I guess nobody has been paying attention
    > to what I've said about the ten FLAG SYMBOL XX characters
    > (e-4E5..e-4EE). They are not symbols of countries, nor are
    > they symbols of flags. They are flag icons being used in
    > these sets as symbols for 10 common language localizations.
    > That is why I recommend that:
    > a. the glyphs be changed to make that clear
    > b. the names be changed to EMOJI SYMBOL FOR RUSSIAN LOCALISATION
    > or something similar

    Splendid! Now you've opened the floodgates to localization into 5,000
    I assure you Irish and N'Ko will be early requesters.

    Because, you see, despite the fact that the Russian flag may come from
    an emoji implementation, its encoding in the UCS makes it available

    > All the FUD about "all the other flags" is merely creating
    > roadblocks for accomplishing what needs to be done to get
    > interoperable cross-mappings for these 10 symbols in the set.

    Easy for you to say. Your country happens to be one of the countries
    included by Japanese telecoms for this purpose.

    > As for TOKYO TOWER and STATUE OF LIBERTY, they are just two
    > random doohickey symbols in the set. It is not worth the
    > life-shortening effects of high blood pressure to worry about
    > them opening the door to encoding a character for every
    > tourist destination around the world.

    Oh my, no, Ken. TOKYO TOWER and STATUE OF LIBERTY are in no way
    different from NEWGRANGE or the DUBLIN SPIRE. Or STONEHENGE or TIKAL
    or a thousand other UNESCO heritage iconisms. Kindly DO NOT pretend
    that ISO NBs will ignore this. It is NOT our fault that some Japanese
    companies put some things into some industry standards. You UTCers
    want to open this door, don't you complain when the rest of the world
    wants to follow the precedent you are setting.

    > I can assure you that I have no plans to bring in a proposal
    > for the COIT TOWER, SEARS TOWER, and WATTS TOWERS characters
    > anytime soon.

    That's your business

    > So I think the Irish NB may desist on demanding
    > an encoding for the NEWGRANGE, OBRIENS TOWER, and OLD
    > JAMESON DISTILLERY characters.

    Open this door, and I assure you it will be open for everyone, not
    just those whom some Japanese Telcos have considered important.

    Michael Everson *

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