Re: Emoji: Public Review December 2008: e-1DE CHINESE ZODIAC DRAGON

Date: Thu Mar 12 2009 - 16:09:52 CST

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    Quoting "John H. Jenkins" <>:

    > On Mar 11, 2009, at 9:35 AM, Peter Constable wrote (addressing
    > Michael Everson):
    >>> That doesn't mean a RABBIT isn't a RABBIT. What possible benefit could
    >>> there be to distinguish RABBIT from ZODIAC RABBIT?
    >> What possible benefit could there be to specifying _this_ RABBIT as
    >> being a ZODIAC RABBIT (an intrinsically narrower intension)?
    >>> It's a RABBIT, Ken.
    >> Erm... I think you are in agreement on that point, which is where
    >> this thread started: the name in the proposal is RABBIT, not ZODIAC
    >> RABBIT.
    >>> Then what is wrong with
    >>> RABBIT
    >>> * used in Chinese astrology
    >> No problem with the name. The problem with the annotation is that
    >> it suggests a primary intended usage that is somewhat narrow. A far
    >> less biased annotation would be "used as Japanese emoji", which
    >> leaves people free to infer use to denote a zodiacal sign or
    >> whatever other possible semantics might be used in that context.
    > D'accord. I rather doubt that these symbols in existing practice
    > are limited to the Chinese zodiac and certainly once this set
    > escapes into the wild they won't be. ("ur a <U+1F374> & ful of ?")
    > Even if they were originally added to provide cute, iconic support
    > for the animals in the Chinese zodiac, we shouldn't be marking that
    > as their use. Not only do standard icons outside of the hanzi in
    > question not exist in East Asia, different countries don't even
    > agree on the same set of twelve animals. (Vietnam has a cat instead
    > of a rabbit.)
    > In any event, to even annotate the name "used in Chinese astrology"
    > is wrong, not just because it's too narrow, but because it's wrong.
    > U+5154 is used in Chinese astrology. The RABBIT emoji could
    > conceivably used to refer to the rabbit of the Chinese zodiac, but
    > an astrologer who wants something to use the way we use ? in the
    > West would use U+5154, not the emoji.
    > People who want to use them for that can find them without our
    > pointing it out. ("im a <U+1F392> wat r u?"/"im a <U+1F377>", or
    > "im a gem wat r u?"/"<U+1F384>")
    As someone who lives in China I have observed that the animals used
    for the zodiac are not produced in any particular style. A rabbit is
    therefore simply a rabbit - all rabbits are equally zodiac or non
    zodiac. Therefore just the animal name be it rabbit or whatever is
    designation that would be best.

    John Knightley


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