Re: On the possibility of encoding some localizable sentences in plane 7

From: Robert Abel (
Date: Sat Jan 29 2011 - 11:46:58 CST

  • Next message: Asmus Freytag: "Re: Rejected decimal separator (former Re: On the possibility of encoding some localizable sentences in plane 7)"

    On 2011/01/29 08:18, William_J_G Overington wrote:
    > The whole of Unicode has been about producing progress by inventing something from where there was nothing before.
    You were told before and you were told again in this thread:
    On 2011/01/28 16:36, Doug Ewell wrote (sarcasm tags mine):
    > <sarcasm>Yeah. That's what Unicode is all about. Inventing something
    > from scratch.</sarcasm>
    William, you still haven't gotten what Unicode is about. You try to put
    something in there with pushing and shoving that just doesn't want to go
    in there. And neither does Unicode want it in there!

    For your general idea, you have actually gotten much useful advice on
    this very list! For instance, look at Shawn Steele's post (On 2011/01/28
    19:55). It contained very much advice, very detailed advice and most of
    all not bad advice! Though I would prefer (if I wanted or planned to
    implement something like this, which I don't) to have base sentences
    ("Where can I <verb> <public place>?") with switchable nouns (public
    place = "pharmacy"|"grocery store"|...) and verbs (verb =
    "find"|"buy"|... ; yes, this example is flawed), which exist in travel
    guides today in paper form and even in the suggested point-to-it guides
    that were mentioned in this very thread!

    For instance, you kind of argue around your own point:
    On 2011/01/29 09:27, William_J_G Overington wrote:
    > There would be a graphic logo that would display in an ordinary system and the text could be localized automatically if desired by the user of a receiving device that had suitable software.
    Why is is, that having suitable software for the actual translation
    (into the recipients' language) is okay, yet, having the same software
    additionally handle display of a little icon is not? Why does the icon
    (and key to your mapping "idea => sentence") have to be a Unicode
    codepoint? Asmus Freytag posted the problem here numerous times (his
    sentence, my markings):

    On 2011/01/29 10:38, Asmus Freytag wrote:
    > Unicode [...] defines something that is *demonstrably* of actual great
    > use.

    You still haven't demonstrated that great use of a pictogram that would
    likely be displayed in under 24×24 pixels and the greater benefit of it
    being publicly interchangeable instead of a codepoint inside the PUA!
     * What is the benefit of having an icon for this localizable sentence
    when literally every common-sense implementation will require "suitable
     * What would the pictogram even show? A man walking towards a big pill
    with question marks all around?
     * If the pictogram was of any use, how can you demonstrate the need for
    it not to be a PUA codepoint? If your thing catched on, people would
    have the "suitable software" and a "suitable font" to show the icons and
    "translate" the sentence.

    You should really think about these things. Try coming up with something
    and implement it. Then notice the deficits and come up with something
    better. You try to work this out the other way around. Any XML format
    would be highly more advanced than a pictogram. Indeed, XML would give
    you the facilities to have a dynamic entry mask created out of the data
    and have good searches on possible sentences.
     * Why is this not an option?
     * Why is your idea a plain-text one?

    You might even look at current software at get an idea of how they do
    it! For instance ― not to advertise a brand, but it's the first thing
    that came to my mind ― there are Nintendo DS applications that have city
    guides, common sentences, pronunciation of these, and much more. Have a
    look at it and see if your idea is superior. For instance, your idea
    needs two devices running "suitable software", able to communicate with
    each other, being up-to-date to include a "suitable font" with the
    pictograms and a recent localized sentence database. These software
    titles for a game console are self-contained in that sense.

    I sincerely hope you think about all of the recent advice that was given
    to you and don't post a recap of your previously dismissed arguments.


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