From: CE Whitehead (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Thu Mar 17 2011 - 09:19:14 CST
Hi once more.
From: CE Whitehead (email@example.com)
Date: Sat Mar 12 2011 - 01:25:20 CST
> From: Vinodh Rajan (firstname.lastname@example.org)
> Date: Fri Mar 11 2011 - 12:40:34 CST
>> I found a proposal for the character /Arabic Jazm Urdu/ here :
>> Ishida's page on Urdu ( http://people.w3.org/rishida/scripts/urdu/ ) recommends
>> that, the /Jazm/ be handled a font variant of the Arabic /Sukun/.
>> (The other character *not* recommended by Ishida, but supposedly having the
>> same form is U+06E1.
> It seems that U+0652 is recommended for both the sukun/jazm normally (with language-specific
> styling applied I guess; the exception
> would be the Q'uran where both U+06E1 and U+0652 are used; and of course the Q'uran is in a
> single language, Arabic).
>> Although, the shape seems to be different than that of
>> the /Jazm/ in Govt. of Pakisan's proposal )
> It looks like the French "circonflex" apparently:
> (It apparently can either be on its side or look like the circonflex;
> albeit an inverted one
> so there are two forms/glyphs for jazm; sukun looks like a tiny o or 0 but again is a diacritic; so
> altogether there are three
> different shapes here.)
>> Why was this character not encoded ?
>> Is it recommended by the Unicode that the Urdu /Jazm/ be handled as a glyph
>> variant of the Arabic /Sukun/. ?
> I personally don't see a reason to encode it separately in idns.
> (In fact the three dots above an Arabic tah with dots look like a circonflex too, and so this might be
> confusing to have jazm too in idns.
> However, I don't know why some urdu characters are encoded separately from Arabic and some
> not -- as the numbers can be a
> security issue for idns too if care is not taken, yet these are encoded separately; but I personally
> would not allow jazm character in
> Unicode apparently -- in 2002 -- needed to see more research before encoding the Urdu jazm:
> http://unicode.org/consortium/utc-minutes/UTC-091-200205.html .)
> For the Q'uran, perhaps a separate character could be encoded; but I feel it would be best to ask
> native speakers of Arabic what they > think.
> Normally jazm and sukun have the same use apparently; they both indicate the absence of a vowel
> and are different than "null."
> (http://www.cle.org.pk/clt10/papers/Automatic%20Diacritization%20for%20Urdu.pdf :
> "Though Null diacritic may be
> generally confused with Jazm (which marks absence
> of Zer, Zabar or Pesh on consonants), the two are
> quite distinct. Null is used to indicated absence of a
> diacritic on a consonant before long vowels, thus on
> onset consonants in a syllable, whereas Jazm is used
> on consonants to indicate that they are coda position
> in a syllable (see  for discussion on Urdu syllable
> A sukun-like character is used instead to mean "null" in the Q'uran it seems, however.
> According to SIL's info, Quranic requirements are in some ways met with U+06E1 and U+0652,
> except that U+0652 corresponds in the Q'uran to "ignore this consonant" (null) whereas normally
> in the Arabic language it indicates,
> like the Urdu jazm, no vowel:
> (It seems to me that the Unicode notes on these two characters are not quite clear.)
> Elsewhere, outside of the Q'uran you can change your font variant for the urdu text, using
> language styling.
> (Hope this helps anwer your question; sorry I can't do better.)
> --C. E. Whitehead
My goof -- Vinodh is right in wondering how to get the jazm to display.
While fonts are being discussed, does anyone know what font will display the jazm character (currently encoded as a variant of the sukun, U+0652) properly for Urdu?
I am not quite happy with the display of the Q'uranic "vowel suppressor" (U+06E1) either -- though at least it's displayed as not just a sukun -- and so would be curious to know what font can be used for that too (Tahoma seems o.k. for Q'uranic Arabic, but not really for the Urdu jazm; in spite of the info at http://salrc.uchicago.edu/resources/fonts/available/urdu/.; but I do not wholly like the way the Arabic jazm 06E1 was displayed even in Tahoma; I found some info at: http://zekr.org/wiki/Arabic_fonts but have not tried any of these [I have Windows XP and can't upgrade to Windows 7 starter, only to premium so am holding off]; are these worth it? Does anyone know which fonts properly display these characters?)
(I attached a text with the characters . . . so anyone who has these fonts can just check it.)
--C. E. Whitehead
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