Accumulated Feedback on PRI #389

This page is a compilation of formal public feedback received so far. See Feedback for further information on this issue, how to discuss it, and how to provide feedback.

To see feedback on this PRI which has already been processed and has received final disposition before the close of the review period, please see the Processed Feedback page.

Date/Time: Thu Nov 8 04:57:40 CST 2018
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: K6-1022 for U+3EAC in Draft Unicode, 12.0.0

K6-1022 is at U+3EAC. This K glyph has matched KS X 1027-5:2014, but it
looks like the unification between K6-1022 and GKX-0727.11, T3-2671 is not
suitable. http://db.itkc.or.kr shows K6-1022 is only used as the person's
name in 《星湖全集》 and so on, which the pronunciation is shin(신).

U+3EAC(㺬) and U+248F2(𤣲) are different characters in 《類篇》, U+3EAC(㺬) reads
as gong3(古勇切), but U+248F2(𤣲) reads as xun4(思晉切). Kangxi Dictionary unified
them in the same entry, I think it's incorrect because the rationales
between these two characters are different.

If K6-1022 reads as shin(신) in Korean, it should be moved to U+248F2(𤣲) and
the right component of K6-1022 is not 凡. Notice that U+248ED (𤣭) and U+248F2
(𤣲) are a pair of duplicate, but the U+248F2 glyph is more common.

I also pointed out some K conventions issue for the K6-Source characters in
my feedback on IRGN2300.
http://appsrv.cse.cuhk.edu.hk/~irg/irg/irg50/IRGN2300_EisoFeedback.pdf The
glyphs of K6-1010, K6-104B, K6-106C, K6-107A and K6-1093 are questionable.
IRG discussed my feedback in IRG #51, and ROK is asked to further study the
document and provide response. Please read Section 12 in IRGN2329,
http://appsrv.cse.cuhk.edu.hk/~irg/irg/irg51/IRGN2329MiscEditorialReport.pdf

Date/Time: Wed Nov 21 20:54:51 CST 2018
Name: H.W.
Report Type: Error Report
Opt Subject: CJK T-source error

In the previous versions of Unicode,

(1) T5-7A38 was mapped to U+4695.  The lastest version remaps T5-7A38 to U+2F9CB, 
and U+4695 has no T-source at all.  It is not justifiable to map a character to 
compatibility ideograph while leaving the unified ideograph unmapped.

(2) The followings seem to be typos.

U+55B9 - now appeared as TE-5FAF; it should be TE-5F2F (TE-5FAF did not exist)
U+841C - now appeared as TE-5D58; it should be TE-5D48
U+2B74E - now appeared as TB-733E; it should be TB-7334

Date/Time: Fri Nov 23 07:33:32 CST 2018
Name: Eiso Chan
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: V2-742D glyph for U+200DD in Draft Unicode, 12.0.0

The V2-742D glyph for U+200DD has been changed silently since Unicode, 11.0.0. 
In the Draft Unicode, 12.0.0, this error has been there. ⿰翁力 is U+52DC 勜. 

And I checked the Vietnamese word and the meaning of U+200DD in the website of 
VNPF, the character should be ⿺乙小 not ⿰翁力. U+200DD in Unicode, 10.0.0 and 
TCVN 8271-2:2009 is ⿺乙小. 

The V glyph should be changed back to ⿺乙小 to match UCS2003 and the corresponding 
glyph in Unicode, 10.0.0 and TCVN 8271-1:2009. 

Date/Time: Sun Nov 25 15:53:00 CST 2018
Name: David Corbett
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI #389: Indic_Syllabic_Category of U+11A3A ZANABAZAR SQUARE CLUSTER-INITIAL LETTER RA

“The CLUSTER INITIAL RA is positioned at the normal head height, not 
above it” (L2/15-337 p. 23) so its Indic_Syllabic_Category should be 
Consonant_With_Stacker instead of Consonant_Prefixed.

Date/Time: Thu Nov 29 15:30:24 CST 2018
Name: David Corbett
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI #389: Missing values for Indic_Positional_Category and Indic_Syllabic_Category

U+111CA SHARADA SIGN NUKTA should have Indic_Positional_Category=Bottom.

U+11300 GRANTHA SIGN COMBINING ANUSVARA ABOVE should have
Indic_Positional_Category=Top.

U+103C MYANMAR CONSONANT SIGN MEDIAL RA and U+1171E AHOM CONSONANT SIGN
MEDIAL RA should have a new Indic_Positional_Category,
Top_And_Bottom_And_Left.

U+0971 DEVANAGARI SIGN HIGH SPACING DOT should have
Indic_Syllabic_Category=Modifying_Letter.

U+0ECC LAO CANCELLATION MARK should have
Indic_Syllabic_Category=Consonant_Killer.

U+19DA NEW TAI LUE THAM DIGIT ONE should have
Indic_Syllabic_Category=Number.

The Vedic anusvaras U+1CE9 through U+1CEC, U+1CEE through U+1CF1, and U+A8F4
through U+A8F7 should have Indic_Syllabic_Category=Bindu.

U+11448 NEWA SIGN FINAL ANUSVARA and U+114C5 TIRHUTA GVANG should also have
Indic_Syllabic_Category=Bindu.

Date/Time: Mon Dec 10 21:36:45 CST 2018
Name: Erik Carvalhal Miller
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI 389: Glyphs for U+13432..U+13435 (Egyptian Hieroglyph Format Controls)

The beta representative glyphs for the “insert” characters
(U+13432..U+13435) in the new Egyptian Hieroglyph Format Controls block are
problematically inconsistent with other representative glyphs using the
dashed‐box convention throughout the code charts.  The composition of most
dashed‐box glyphs has the box surrounding one or more glyphs of other
Unicode characters which in turn form a mnemonic and/or a representative
image, as detailed in §24.1 of the 11.0 Core Specification.  Such dashed‐box
glyphs thus facilitate (written) discussion of the characters; even if the
dashed glyphs are unavailable, their contents are easily recast as
Unicode‐friendly shorthand (e.g., “ZWJ” for U+200D).  That is not possible
with “insert” format‐control glyphs based on graphic elements outside the
Unicode character repertoire.  Accordingly it is respectfully recommended
that the “insert” glyphs be revised as dashed‐box glyphs based on the
characters U+25F0..U+25F3 (nonrespective), following from proposal N4818.

Date/Time: Thu Dec 13 13:26:08 CST 2018
Name: Marc Lodewijck
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI #389: Miscellaneous items

U+1E13C NYIAKENG PUACHUE HMONG SIGN XW XW
U+1E14F NYIAKENG PUACHUE HMONG CIRCLED CA

The cross-references and the comment lines are reversed in NamesList-12.0.0d5.txt:

1E13C	NYIAKENG PUACHUE HMONG SIGN XW XW
	x (thai character maiyamok - 0E46)
	x (lao ko la - 0EC6)
	* indicates repetition of a short word or syllable
	* indicates repetition of a whole phrase or sentence when preceded by a space

1E14F	NYIAKENG PUACHUE HMONG CIRCLED CA
	x (nyiakeng puachue hmong letter ca - 1E108)
	* used to indicate ownership


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+16F4F MIAO SIGN CONSONANT MODIFIER BAR

A comment line may be added:

16F4F	MIAO SIGN CONSONANT MODIFIER BAR
	* used in Gan Yi
	* functions similarly as the Indic nukta   # addition


http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2017/17345-n4845-miao-add.pdf


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+2106 CADA UNA

An informative alias MUST be added:

2106	CADA UNA
	= cada uno   # addition
	* Spanish for "each one"
	# 0063 002F 0075


See my document at http://www.texttools.online/~share/Unicode/2106_cada_una.pdf


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+1F6D5 HINDU TEMPLE

An informative alias may be added:

1F6D5	HINDU TEMPLE
	= mandir   # addition


https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandir
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mandir
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/mandir


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+1F6FA AUTO RICKSHAW

An informative alias and a comment line may be added:

1F6FA	AUTO RICKSHAW
	= tuk-tuk
	* the word “tuk-tuk” used in Thailand and several Southeast Asian countries 
		is still up for debate in Cambodia, although the recommended name is the 
		French word “remorque” (“trailer”)


A tuk-tuk is a motorized version of the Indian rickshaw, thus an “auto rickshaw”.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/tuk-tuk
https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/new-futuristic-tuk-tuks-arrive-on-the-streets-of-phnom-penh-52616/
https://www.khmertimeskh.com/news/29544/cambodia---s-chariots/

A circular from the Cambodian Ministry of Tourism dated 9 January 2013 stipulates that 
the word “tuk-tuk” should no longer be used and recommends the use of the French 
word “remmorque” (“trailer”):

https://khmerologie.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/vie-quotidienne-tuktuk-hors-la-loi-au-cambodge-depuis-le-9-janvier-2013/
https://khmerologie.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/loi_zps7c0b1845-tuktuk.jpg


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+1F16C RAISED MR SIGN

A single informative alias is not enough here...

1F16C	RAISED MR SIGN
	= marca registrada
	* used primarily in Spanish and Portuguese speaking communities to indicate a registered trademark
	x (registered sign - 00AE)
	# <super> 004D 0052


From what I know, “marca registrada” is the spelling used in Castilian,
Catalan, and Brazilian Portuguese. Other spellings must be taken into
account: “marca registada” (without r) in European Portuguese, “marca
rexistrada” (x instead of g) in Galician.


https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marca_registrada#cite_note-1 

European Portuguese:
https://dre.pt/web/guest/legislacao-consolidada/-/lc/107981202/201812081539/73464614/diploma/indice

Galician:
https://gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marca_rexistrada

Castilian:
http://www.anuarioandino.com/Anuarios/Anuario08/art08/ANUARIO%20ANDINO%20ART08.pdf


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+210F PLANCK CONSTANT OVER TWO PI

Please add commonly known names (in a single informative alias line):

210F	PLANCK CONSTANT OVER TWO PI
	= reduced Planck constant, Dirac constant   # addition
	x (cyrillic small letter tshe - 045B)
	# <font> 0127 latin small letter h with stroke

Date/Time: Thu Dec 27 05:53:10 CST 2018
Name: Marc Lodewijck
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI #389: LETTER KRA

U+0138 LATIN SMALL LETTER KRA


The comment line should be updated:


0138	LATIN SMALL LETTER KRA
--	* Greenlandic (old orthography)
++	* Greenlandic (old orthography), Labrador Inuttut  # updated

A possible variant:

    Greenlandic (old orthography), Moravian orthography of Labrador Inuttut


Labrador Inuttut is a Inuktitut dialect within Nunavut. It has a distinct
writing system, created by German protestant missionaries from the Moravian
Church in Greenland in the 1770s.


Letter kra (1)
--------------

See at https://www.screencast.com/t/d8p1TKe7SHn, an excerpt of Bourquin,
Theodor, Grammatik der Eskimo-Sprache, wie sie im Bereich der Missions-
Niederlassungen der Brüdergemeine an der Labradorküste gesprochen wird,
1891, p. 6:

    “Unterschied des Kehl K vom anderen k.”

Literal translation:

    “Difference between the throat K and the other k.”


Letter kra (2)
--------------

https://biblesociety.ca/inuttitut-labrador/

	“In 1980, a meeting of Inuit elders and educators was convened to examine
	the writing system. A new one was developed – the Labrador Inuit
	Standardized Writing System – to provide consistency and clarity. The old
	translation of the Bible was revised using this writing system. This
	revision was made possible through the dedication and commitment of many
	people who spent countless hours revising and reviewing the scripture. In
	2008 the Canadian Bible Society published the Labrador Inuttitut Heritage
	Bible, containing the entire Bible published in one volume, using the new
	writing system.”

The following screencast shows a small excerpt of this translation (accessed
at https://www.bible.com/fr/bible/803/jhn.1.lib ):
https://www.screencast.com/t/lIDFpRa0nWK
   
Other booklets showing the use of the letter kra may be accessed at:

https://g7r8x2i7.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/INLWWJ1rev5.pdf
https://g7r8x2i7.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/INLWWJ2rev5final2.pdf


Other useful data (1)
---------------------

Mark Nuttall, “Alphabets and Writing, North America and Greenland”, in Encyclopedia of the Arctic, Routledge, 2012, p. 59:

	“The first missionaries to Labrador were Moravians with Greenlandic
	experience who founded a mission in Nain in 1771. (...) They brought
	with them their Greenlandic orthography, but their arrival in Labrador
	predated Kleinschmidt's development of standard Greenlandic by almost a
	century. The Labrador Moravian orthography therefore differed from what
	became standard Greenlandic in a number of points. At the end of the
	19th century, Reverend Theodor Bourquin, a Moravian, standardized the
	Labrador orthography. Labrador Inuit have steadfastly refused to
	relinquish their adherence to the Moravian orthography, which they still
	use today.”


Other useful data (2)
---------------------

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/inuktitut

	“Non-Inuit typically refer to the language as Inuktitut; however, the
	speakers themselves have different names for the language in their own
	dialects. For instance, it is called Inuttitut in Nunavik (Northern
	Quebec), Inuttut in Nunatsiavut (Labrador) and Inuktitut in much of
	Nunavut.”

Date/Time: Fri Dec 28 09:57:58 CST 2018
Name: Marc Lodewijck
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI #389: Miscellaneous items (2)

U+0128 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH TILDE
U+0129 LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH TILDE


0128	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH TILDE
	: 0049 0303
0129	LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH TILDE
	* Greenlandic (old orthography)
	: 0069 0303

Please, correct to "Greenlandic (old orthography), Kikuyu"


See “IBUKU RĨA ŨHORO ŨRĨA MWEGA”, Bible Society of Kenya, 2014.
Screencast:
    https://www.screencast.com/t/4qICM250Ps


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+0168 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH TILDE
U+0169 LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH TILDE


0168	LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH TILDE
	: 0055 0303
0169	LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH TILDE
	* Greenlandic (old orthography)
	: 0075 0303

Please, correct to "Greenlandic (old orthography), Kikuyu"


See “IBUKU RĨA ŨHORO ŨRĨA MWEGA”, Bible Society of Kenya, 2014.
Screencast:
    https://www.screencast.com/t/JuX4lOHhlp7


There is a notable literature written in the Kikuyu language. 
Alternative name: Gikuyu.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
U+03C6	GREEK SMALL LETTER PHI
U+1F582	BACK OF ENVELOPE


The cross-references and the comment lines are reversed for these items:

03C6	GREEK SMALL LETTER PHI
	x (latin small letter phi - 0278)
	x (greek phi symbol - 03D5)
	* the ordinary Greek letter, showing considerable glyph variation
	* in mathematical contexts, the loopy glyph is preferred, to contrast with 03D5

1F582	BACK OF ENVELOPE
	x (envelope - 2709)
	* 2709 shows a seal

Date/Time: Thu Jan 3 11:36:17 CST 2019
Name: Marc Lodewijck
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI #389: FAQ/Collation (UCA and ISO 14651)

Please, change the answer to the following question on the Collation FAQ 
page (http://unicode.org/faq/collation.html#13):

	Q. What are the differences between the UCA and ISO 14651?

Since the last version of ISO 14651 [ISO/IEC 14651:2018 (5th ed.)], several
points listed in the answer are no longer accurate. Please correct as
follows: remove items #4, #6, and #7; and reword the item #5.


New answer
------------------

A. Very broadly, the UCA includes the following features that are not part
of ISO 14651. This is only a sketch; for details see
http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/.

• a much more thorough introduction to multilingual sorting issues
• much more information about performance and implementation practices
• how to apply collation to searching and matching
• a variable weighting option allowing punctuation to make a difference 
	at the first three levels (“Non-ignorable” option)


Current answer
------------------

A. Very broadly, the UCA includes the following features that are not part of ISO 
14651. This is only a sketch; for details see http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/.

• a much more thorough introduction to multilingual sorting issues
• much more information about performance and implementation practices
• how to apply collation to searching and matching
• uniform handling of canonical equivalents
• variable weighting (allowing punctuation to be ignored or not)
• irrelevant combining characters don't interfere with contractions
• well-formedness criteria for tables (disallowing tables that would 
	produce peculiar results, e.g. where X and Y don't contract, 
	X < Y and yet XY == YX)


Thank you.

Date/Time: Sun Jan 6 20:19:39 CST 2019
Name: David Corbett
Report Type: Public Review Issue
Opt Subject: PRI #389: General_Category of U+1E14F NYIAKENG PUACHUE HMONG CIRCLED CA

U+1E14F NYIAKENG PUACHUE HMONG CIRCLED CA currently has gc=Lo. The 
evidence for this character provided in L2/17-002R3 shows it being 
used as a symbol, not as a part of a word. It would be more consistent 
with other letterlike symbols, like U+1F12F COPYLEFT SYMBOL and U+3268 
CIRCLED HANGUL CIEUC, if it had gc=So instead.