From rick@unicode.org Thu May 1 14:28:49 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Thu, 01 May 2008 14:34:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from izanami (c-71-202-247-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.247.55]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m41JSNgT001352; Thu, 1 May 2008 14:28:28 -0500 Message-Id: <200805011928.m41JSNgT001352@unicode.org> To: unicode@unicode.org Subject: New Public Review Issue: Proposed Update UTR #25 (Math) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:28:23 -0700 From: Rick McGowan received: by Apple.Mailer (2.95.2) X-archive-position: 496 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: rick@unicode.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users The Unicode Technical Committee has posted a new issue for public review and comment. Details are on the following web page: http://www.unicode.org/review/ Review periods for the new items close on August 1, 2008. Please see the page for links to discussion and relevant documents. Briefly, the new issue is: Public Review Issue #112 Proposed Update to UTR #25 Unicode Support for Mathematics The proposed update of UTR #25 makes minimal content changes, mostly consisting of corrections for typographical errors. There were also some minor formatting changes to enable generation of the text in pdf format, instead of html, and for better typography of the mathematical examples. If you have comments for official UTC consideration, please post them by submitting your comments through our feedback & reporting page: http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html If you wish to discuss issues on the Unicode mail list, then please use the following link to subscribe (if necessary). Please be aware that discussion comments on the Unicode mail list are not automatically recorded as input to the UTC. You must use the reporting link above to generate comments for UTC consideration. http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html Regards, Your Name Unicode, Inc. From verdy_p@wanadoo.fr Thu May 1 20:23:55 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Thu, 01 May 2008 20:23:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp19.orange.fr (smtp19.orange.fr [80.12.242.18]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m421NsuO007122 for ; Thu, 1 May 2008 20:23:55 -0500 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1927.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 019091C0008B for ; Fri, 2 May 2008 03:23:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from HARNON (APoitiers-258-1-46-251.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.45.121.251]) by mwinf1927.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 70DD41C00082 for ; Fri, 2 May 2008 03:23:48 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080502012348462.70DD41C00082@mwinf1927.orange.fr Reply-To: From: "Philippe Verdy" To: References: <9098567.151209490151249.JavaMail.jakarta@127.0.0.1> Subject: LSL/LSM currency : they are the same (loti/maloti) - LSM is bogous Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 03:23:43 +0200 Organization: Ordinateur Personnel Message-ID: <010901c8abf3$29c09a30$0a01a8c0@HARNON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AciqH3X4E4uoWMARQyeZJRBJuWROKQB0J+TQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <9098567.151209490151249.JavaMail.jakarta@127.0.0.1> X-archive-position: 497 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: verdy_p@wanadoo.fr Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users One of the errors I have detected seems uncorrected, or at least I'd like confirmation that this is not an error. The CLDR contains entries for the "LSM" currency code, giving it both sungular and plurals "maloti" and "malotis" in English I really think that this is wrong. "maloti" is exactly synonymous to "loti", it is just its plural in (se)Sotho language used in the same "(le)Sotho" country. Note that "LSM" is not a valid code in ISO 4217, that documents a single currency for "loti" (singular) and "maloti" for its (se)Sotho plural. So: * "maloti" is already a plural ("malotis" just adds another plural mark, and it's wrong). * "lotis" is an European-like plural formed after the singular "loti"; just decide which of "lotis" (final plural mark) or "maloti" (initial Sothoe plural prefix) to keep in English. If not convinced, look at the official site of the Central Bank of Lesotho that displays the banknotes and coins used in the SAME currency for the same country. It looks that the LSM code was invented after looking at banknotes that are labelled in "maloti" and not "loti"; this is normal given the language used to name the currency. This may just be the result of confusion and misunderstanding, and bad "adaptation" to English. There are other similar issues throughout the web discussing about the misunderstanding of the initial prefixes used in (se)Sotho and other African languages to create derived terms for: * grammatical number: number plural, collective * grammatical case * derived nouns They also criticize the creation in English (and other languages) of term like "Lesothan" where the added European suffix contradicts the initial prefix. If the words had been correctly parsed, "Lesotho", "Sesotho" and so on would be parsed just like a compound word with common radical "Sotho" and an initial particle. I'm not saying that we should remove the terms like "Lesotho" for the country because it is already the prefered term for designating it (it's formed after the model of the language), but it's still a compound word (the alternative would have been "Le Sotho" and it would have been more visible, but it's against the (Se)Sotho tradition that stil considers it like a single word, just like European words with an "s" ending for the plural that does not make it another word lexically). The particularity of the Southern African languages using prefix particles is not unique to African languages: look at the German particles that may be attached to verbs, or detached in some situation, where English prefers separating them all time (and French/Spanish/Italian/Portuguese prefer attaching them always to create a separate lexical entity); but dictionnaries are making this composition clear by using some notation between the attached particles/prefixes and the radical, or by adding several lemmas in English dictionnaries for the detached particles. From rick@unicode.org Fri May 2 19:05:31 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Fri, 02 May 2008 19:12:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: from izanami (c-71-202-247-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [71.202.247.55]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m4305Cwg005792; Fri, 2 May 2008 19:05:13 -0500 Message-Id: <200805030005.m4305Cwg005792@unicode.org> To: unicode@unicode.org Subject: Updated Public Review Issue: Proposed Update UTS #18 Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 17:05:13 -0700 From: Rick McGowan received: by Apple.Mailer (2.95.2) X-archive-position: 498 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: rick@unicode.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users The document UTS #18 for Public Review Issue #111 has been updated. The proposed update of UAX #18 clarifies conformance requirements for "." and CRLF, updates the syntax, incorporates the new extended grapheme clusters for Unicode 5.1, and better describes dealing with normalization, the importance of levels, and the use of wildcards in property values. Public feedback is invited. If you have comments for official UTC consideration, please post them by submitting your comments through our feedback & reporting page: http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html If you wish to discuss issues on the Unicode mail list, then please use the following link to subscribe (if necessary). Please be aware that discussion comments on the Unicode mail list are not automatically recorded as input to the UTC. You must use the reporting link above to generate comments for UTC consideration. http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html Regards, Rick McGowan Unicode, Inc. From asmodai@in-nomine.org Sat May 3 17:31:33 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sat, 03 May 2008 17:31:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org (dhammapada.xs4all.nl [82.95.168.248]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m43MVWPR017480 for ; Sat, 3 May 2008 17:31:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BABBC16E for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 00:31:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at in-nomine.org Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nexus.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rDJIXtclWUC0 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 00:31:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A29F5C16C; Sun, 4 May 2008 00:31:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 00:31:29 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Dutch languages Message-ID: <20080503223129.GB1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organisation: Ninth Circle Enterprises User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-archive-position: 499 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: asmodai@in-nomine.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users Looking at the languages section of the Dutch part I see my votes are siding with Apple's against IBM's. Right now IBM's translations are with the 1.5.1 data, which quite frankly makes no sense. Almost everywhere they added '(overige)' which means 'other' in English. This totally does *not* reflect the requested translation. I am worried that if no other voters/vetters vote for the appropriate translations Dutch will get screwed over. How do I get in contact with IBM on this, because this is clearly wrong and not just because I vote for the other item. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? From srl@icu-project.org Sat May 3 17:55:17 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sat, 03 May 2008 17:55:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from k2smtpout05-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (k2smtpout05-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.189.56]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m43MtHAn031791 for ; Sat, 3 May 2008 17:55:17 -0500 Received: (qmail 17528 invoked from network); 3 May 2008 22:55:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ssl.icu-project.org) (208.109.248.225) by k2smtpout05-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.189.56) with ESMTP; 03 May 2008 22:55:15 -0000 Received: from monkey.sbay.org ([216.27.178.44] helo=tintin.priv) by ssl.icu-project.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1JsQQm-0003v9-JL; Sat, 03 May 2008 15:42:12 -0700 Message-ID: <481CED52.3020105@icu-project.org> Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 15:55:14 -0700 From: "Steven R. Loomis" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven CC: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Re: Dutch languages References: <20080503223129.GB1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> In-Reply-To: <20080503223129.GB1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 500 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: srl@icu-project.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users Jeroen, Hit the 'Forum' link, or in a forum (zoomed-in detail) page, click the link: "+ Post a comment to other vetters. (Don't use this to report SurveyTool issues or propose data changes: use the bug forms.)" That will write to others about the item. You probably need to only comment on a single item but refer to the others. -s Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > Looking at the languages section of the Dutch part I see my votes are siding > with Apple's against IBM's. Right now IBM's translations are with the 1.5.1 > data, which quite frankly makes no sense. > Almost everywhere they added '(overige)' which means 'other' in English. > This totally does *not* reflect the requested translation. > > I am worried that if no other voters/vetters vote for the appropriate > translations Dutch will get screwed over. > > How do I get in contact with IBM on this, because this is clearly wrong and > not just because I vote for the other item. > > From asmodai@in-nomine.org Sat May 3 17:58:39 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sat, 03 May 2008 17:58:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org (dhammapada.xs4all.nl [82.95.168.248]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m43Mwc9Q001435 for ; Sat, 3 May 2008 17:58:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5890C16E; Sun, 4 May 2008 00:58:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at in-nomine.org Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nexus.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rGdokBP6hyqT; Sun, 4 May 2008 00:58:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EB19DC16C; Sun, 4 May 2008 00:58:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 00:58:36 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: "Steven R. Loomis" Cc: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Re: Dutch languages Message-ID: <20080503225836.GC1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> References: <20080503223129.GB1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481CED52.3020105@icu-project.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <481CED52.3020105@icu-project.org> Organisation: Ninth Circle Enterprises User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-archive-position: 501 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: asmodai@in-nomine.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users -On [20080504 00:55], Steven R. Loomis (srl@icu-project.org) wrote: >That will write to others about the item. You probably need to only comment >on a single item but refer to the others. Gotcha. Already did it for something else, but wanted to make sure I was fully on the right track since this is a reasonably serious thing. Thanks! -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? From srl@icu-project.org Sun May 4 01:34:48 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sun, 04 May 2008 01:34:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from k2smtpout05-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (k2smtpout05-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.189.57]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m446Yl94013495 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 01:34:48 -0500 Received: (qmail 27313 invoked from network); 4 May 2008 06:34:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ssl.icu-project.org) (208.109.248.225) by k2smtpout05-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.189.57) with ESMTP; 04 May 2008 06:34:47 -0000 Received: from monkey.sbay.org ([216.27.178.44] helo=tintin.priv) by ssl.icu-project.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1JsXbP-00058s-Ht; Sat, 03 May 2008 23:21:39 -0700 Message-ID: <481D5906.6080509@icu-project.org> Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 23:34:46 -0700 From: "Steven R. Loomis" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven CC: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Re: Dutch languages References: <20080503223129.GB1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481CED52.3020105@icu-project.org> <20080503225836.GC1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> In-Reply-To: <20080503225836.GC1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 502 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: srl@icu-project.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users That's really the best way. It will email them about the posting. You should receive an email yourself with the post. -s Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > -On [20080504 00:55], Steven R. Loomis (srl@icu-project.org) wrote: > >> That will write to others about the item. You probably need to only comment >> on a single item but refer to the others. >> > > Gotcha. > > Already did it for something else, but wanted to make sure I was fully on > the right track since this is a reasonably serious thing. > > Thanks! > > From asmodai@in-nomine.org Sun May 4 04:03:36 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sun, 04 May 2008 04:03:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org (dhammapada.xs4all.nl [82.95.168.248]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4493Z3h018474 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 04:03:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E075C16E for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 11:03:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at in-nomine.org Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nexus.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wpB-k2mONqi8 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 11:03:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B3F29C16C; Sun, 4 May 2008 11:03:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 11:03:33 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: language code my - Burmese Message-ID: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organisation: Ninth Circle Enterprises User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-archive-position: 503 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: asmodai@in-nomine.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users Given the global shift towards using Myanmar instead of Burma, will the English term also reflect this change on the language? So Myanmar instead of Burmese. I ask this since more and more official documentation worldwide is changing accordingly. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? From asmodai@in-nomine.org Sun May 4 08:22:55 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sun, 04 May 2008 08:22:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org (dhammapada.xs4all.nl [82.95.168.248]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m44DMstN015755 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 08:22:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CD5C0E9; Sun, 4 May 2008 15:22:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at in-nomine.org Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nexus.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u6E5Jp+qMf3g; Sun, 4 May 2008 15:22:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4EE31C0D9; Sun, 4 May 2008 15:22:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 15:22:52 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: Philippe Verdy Cc: "'Mark Davis'" , cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Re: Bug Report submission date? Message-ID: <20080504132252.GF1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> References: <8ed39d8d0804272155n674a5663od614c0c146b82b0e@mail.gmail.com> <30b660a20804272249x676f22dei6f506eaa4e441af4@mail.gmail.com> <006e01c8a9d4$4635c8f0$0a01a8c0@HARNON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <006e01c8a9d4$4635c8f0$0a01a8c0@HARNON> Organisation: Ninth Circle Enterprises User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-archive-position: 504 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: asmodai@in-nomine.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users -On [20080429 10:49], Philippe Verdy (verdy_p@wanadoo.fr) wrote: >I've still not been able to finish the submision due to the very slow server >and frequent timeouts, plus lots of downtime (it still takes about 2 minutes >per validation); I have to chime in here, I have no idea what the survey tool is doing but I have frequent stalls where it just keeps on waiting to receive data from the server. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? From verdy_p@wanadoo.fr Sun May 4 13:56:57 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sun, 04 May 2008 13:56:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp27.orange.fr (smtp27.orange.fr [80.12.242.96]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m44IuuEY003899 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 13:56:57 -0500 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf2721.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 088F01C00094; Sun, 4 May 2008 20:56:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from HARNON (APoitiers-258-1-5-46.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.45.152.46]) by mwinf2721.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id AA3311C00092; Sun, 4 May 2008 20:56:50 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080504185650697.AA3311C00092@mwinf2721.orange.fr Reply-To: From: "Philippe Verdy" To: "'Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven'" , References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> Subject: RE: language code my - Burmese Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 20:56:41 +0200 Organization: Ordinateur Personnel Message-ID: <001501c8ae18$970a9380$0a01a8c0@HARNON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> Thread-Index: AcityliCOvNjJUBDTDGIbkZz2syWHwAS6Bsg X-archive-position: 505 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: verdy_p@wanadoo.fr Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users > [mailto:cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org] De la part de Jeroen > > Given the global shift towards using Myanmar instead of > Burma, will the English term also reflect this change on the language? > > So Myanmar instead of Burmese. Possibly Myanmar is known in English, but here in France it is exclusively known under the French name "Birmanie" (Burma in English) and the language name and culture is refered as "birman", including the overseas Birman community. I'm sure that the Myanmar government would insist to name it "myanmarais", but the language and culture spans other countries than just Myanmar. ("birman" is used in all cultural centers, and by the very active Buddhist community from various South-Asian countries, Indian, Nepalese, and even Chinese). Even today in news reports in French (TV, radios, papers and web sites) about the recent cyclone that devastated five regions of the country including the capital, the country is still named "Birmanie" (simply because almost nobody would know what Myanmar designates), and these reports are speaking about the "birmane" community in Paris that is concerned by the situation in Rangoon after the cyclone. I do agree that the political country can be named Myanmar in the CLDR territory category, but there's no use of the tentative neologism created for the language name itself, or the script, and strong opposition for the refering to the culture with it (in addition, the Myanmar government has almost no use of the French language itself, except in diplomatic affairs in French-speaking countries, so the only presence of the Myanmar culture is from its migrant community living abroad and still using "Birmanie"). From cfynn@gmx.net Sun May 4 16:11:57 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Sun, 04 May 2008 16:11:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m44LBuex025127 for ; Sun, 4 May 2008 16:11:57 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 May 2008 21:11:50 -0000 Received: from cust71.fastlink.bt (EHLO [127.0.0.1]) [202.89.26.71] by mail.gmx.net (mp034) with SMTP; 04 May 2008 23:11:50 +0200 X-Authenticated: #9568751 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/pc8kp7ZfpnykS6qZgC9w0my91+4Dsjub/f8kJpk pk+VzfyXuYQxmR Message-ID: <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 03:09:58 +0600 From: Christopher Fynn Reply-To: cfynn@gmx.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cldr-users@unicode.org CC: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Subject: Re: language code my - Burmese References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> In-Reply-To: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=neXtPaRt_1209936266" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080504-0, 04/05/2008), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-archive-position: 506 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: cfynn@gmx.net Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users ------=neXtPaRt_1209936266 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit English? - The UK Government and the BBC both still almost always use "Burma" in preference to "Myanmar". "Myanmar" is the term preferred by the military junta - and apparently not by most other parties in Burma. Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > Given the global shift towards using Myanmar instead of Burma, will the > English term also reflect this change on the language? > > So Myanmar instead of Burmese. > > I ask this since more and more official documentation worldwide is changing > accordingly. > ------=neXtPaRt_1209936266 Content-Type: text/plain; *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** ------=neXtPaRt_1209936266-- From v-magdad@microsoft.com Mon May 5 11:05:18 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Mon, 05 May 2008 11:05:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m45G5DJ8022680 for ; Mon, 5 May 2008 11:05:18 -0500 Received: from tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.88.97) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Mon, 5 May 2008 09:05:08 -0700 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.61.91]) by tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.88.97]) with mapi; Mon, 5 May 2008 09:05:06 -0700 From: "Magda Danish (Unicode)" To: "kadiyala@us.ibm.com" CC: "cldr-users@unicode.org" Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 09:05:05 -0700 Subject: FW: Subj: Some symbolic names in the CLDR locale do not have entries in the CLDR version of the charmap. Thread-Topic: Subj: Some symbolic names in the CLDR locale do not have entries in the CLDR version of the charmap. Thread-Index: Aciuv7RCcrnuV13CTXS9HwA19vYWIQACVJ3L Message-ID: <871A62EA91884849A3BE952CA63832D016BE383B02@NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> References: <200805051452.m45EqIlc002805@unicode.org> In-Reply-To: <200805051452.m45EqIlc002805@unicode.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by unicode.org id m45G5DJ8022680 X-archive-position: 507 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: v-magdad@microsoft.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users Prasanthi, I am forwarding your email to the CLDR users mailing list whih is the appropriate forum for all CLDR related questions. Please see http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html#cldr_list for future reference. Regards, Magda Danish Sr. Administrative Director Unicode, Inc. ________________________________________ Date/Time: Mon May 5 09:52:18 CDT 2008 Contact: kadiyala@us.ibm.com Name: Prasanthi Kalala Report Type: Error Report Opt Subject: Some symbolic names in the CLDR locale do not have entries in the CLDR version of the charmap. Hi, I have noticed that some characters in CLDR locale sr_Cyrl_RS.UTF-8.src do not have character values defined in the corresponding charmap UTF-8.cm. I am giving a few examples here. These are from version 1.5.1. Is there any other place that I should be looking for these character values? ;/ ;/ ; ;/ ;/ ;/ ; ; ; ; ;/ ; ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ; ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/ Thank you, Prasanthi. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- (End of Report) From asmodai@in-nomine.org Tue May 6 03:11:14 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 06 May 2008 03:11:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org (dhammapada.xs4all.nl [82.95.168.248]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m468BD5V003145 for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 03:11:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E4AC194 for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 10:11:12 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at in-nomine.org Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nexus.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id saoRzKsjXmDu for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 10:11:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C27C5C176; Tue, 6 May 2008 10:11:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:11:11 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Vetting 2 weeks? Message-ID: <20080506081111.GQ1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organisation: Ninth Circle Enterprises User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-archive-position: 508 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: asmodai@in-nomine.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users People, is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the vetting period? Leaving aside things I should have fixed in the data submission period (part of the learning process) I do find that ~1 week is too short for a sufficent vetting period and communication with other vetters. But perhaps I am alone in this belief. What do others think? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? From matial@il.ibm.com Tue May 6 05:08:20 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 06 May 2008 05:08:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mtagate8.de.ibm.com (mtagate8.de.ibm.com [195.212.29.157]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m46A8IqI017748; Tue, 6 May 2008 05:08:19 -0500 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate8.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m46A8CnF057678; Tue, 6 May 2008 10:08:12 GMT Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.228]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.7) with ESMTP id m46A8CBF3145818; Tue, 6 May 2008 12:08:12 +0200 Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m46A8CFM032748; Tue, 6 May 2008 12:08:12 +0200 Received: from d12ml101.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12ml101.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.166.114]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m46A8CJu032745; Tue, 6 May 2008 12:08:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20080506081111.GQ1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Cc: cldr-users@unicode.org, cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Vetting 2 weeks? X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: Matitiahu Allouche Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:08:10 +0300 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D12ML101/12/M/IBM(Release 7.0.2FP2HF322 | September 26, 2007) at 06/05/2008 13:08:12, Serialize complete at 06/05/2008 13:08:12 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0037B347C2257441_=" X-archive-position: 509 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: matial@il.ibm.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0037B347C2257441_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" I agree. Shalom (Regards), Mati Bidi Architect Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts IBM Israel Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Sent by: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org 06/05/2008 11:11 To cldr-users@unicode.org cc Subject Vetting 2 weeks? People, is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the vetting period? Leaving aside things I should have fixed in the data submission period (part of the learning process) I do find that ~1 week is too short for a sufficent vetting period and communication with other vetters. But perhaps I am alone in this belief. What do others think? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai $B%$%'%k!<%s(B $B%i%&%U%m%C%/(B $B%t%!%s(B $B%G%k(B $B%&%'%k%t%'%s(B http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? --=_alternative 0037B347C2257441_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-2022-JP"
I agree.

Shalom (Regards),  Mati
          Bidi Architect
          Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts
          IBM Israel


Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai@in-nomine.org>
Sent by: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org

06/05/2008 11:11

To
cldr-users@unicode.org
cc
Subject
Vetting 2 weeks?





People,

is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the vetting
period?

Leaving aside things I should have fixed in the data submission period (part
of the learning process) I do find that ~1 week is too short for a sufficent
vetting period and communication with other vetters.

But perhaps I am alone in this belief.

What do others think?

--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
$B%$%'%k!<%s(B $B%i%&%U%m%C%/(B $B%t%!%s(B $B%G%k(B $B%&%'%k%t%'%s(B
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..?
--=_alternative 0037B347C2257441_=-- From dzo@bisharat.net Tue May 6 05:35:34 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 06 May 2008 05:35:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kabissa.org (113166.kabissa.org [72.32.199.201]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m46AZYP2028514 for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 05:35:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 15317 invoked from network); 6 May 2008 05:35:33 -0500 Received: from pool-71-255-255-167.washdc.east.verizon.net (HELO IBM92AA25595C4) (71.255.255.167) by 72.32.229.137 with SMTP; 6 May 2008 05:35:31 -0500 From: "Don Osborn" To: "'Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven'" , References: <20080506081111.GQ1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> In-Reply-To: <20080506081111.GQ1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> Subject: RE: Vetting 2 weeks? Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 06:35:26 -0400 Message-ID: <013901c8af64$e60bc2e0$b22348a0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcivUPhq6Guya/4mSsSjfv0avmFaAQAC1+Rg Content-Language: en-us Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by unicode.org id m46AZYP2028514 X-archive-position: 510 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: dzo@bisharat.net Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users This sounds like a reasonable idea, esp. as we get more locales for languages whose experts may not all have optimal access to communications / connections. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org [mailto:cldr-users- > bounce@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 4:11 AM > To: cldr-users@unicode.org > Subject: Vetting 2 weeks? > > People, > > is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the > vetting > period? > > Leaving aside things I should have fixed in the data submission period > (part > of the learning process) I do find that ~1 week is too short for a > sufficent > vetting period and communication with other vetters. > > But perhaps I am alone in this belief. > > What do others think? > > -- > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai > イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン > http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B > If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? From jmgurey@gmail.com Tue May 6 06:37:12 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 06 May 2008 06:37:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.236]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m46BbC9Y019428 for ; Tue, 6 May 2008 06:37:12 -0500 Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so1517728rvb.51 for ; Tue, 06 May 2008 04:37:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=79Q6YEb6CodOVzsGWAvBEeI7GsrOqIanafPt7N7Fuwo=; b=V/4FuKdhv5lv1A8Hr3zOn5TVZobudi/1q84rCU6d86+gJUU5udRwAPiV4v1x87RFNML6oIKIsKq6cgvGlR+h8VyXBQ9YEEdOTT3i8VRBzLQxY7tFOhE+ZSWBVBF5CwKqf1C1GVuRsFSQu2atHknwD1PqooVDi+qDM8d9WQ25dRk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=H9kbKzbAXolLEYpofYvX8xF8eY949WBAt0M8E224ZnMP+UKAADkPslEh+laCym8I5dZ66vprgfPN5TSAhUc/I6Ew74pjKPEMqdgho727bvwR5yAISkCdqLCv7Q+Fsr3NJPohUts3234kRNdhT+PqtfFfNIxKyDmxCJz0NG0cWG0= Received: by 10.141.78.14 with SMTP id f14mr292760rvl.119.1210073831978; Tue, 06 May 2008 04:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.170.11 with HTTP; Tue, 6 May 2008 04:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2bd499460805060437s3cdccd37udba6ab896a928bf9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:37:11 +0200 From: "Jama Jama Musse" To: "Don Osborn" Subject: Re: Vetting 2 weeks? Cc: "Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven" , cldr-users@unicode.org In-Reply-To: <013901c8af64$e60bc2e0$b22348a0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23689_32178004.1210073831983" References: <20080506081111.GQ1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <013901c8af64$e60bc2e0$b22348a0$@net> X-archive-position: 511 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: jmgurey@gmail.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users ------=_Part_23689_32178004.1210073831983 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I too do agree. Jama On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Don Osborn wrote: > This sounds like a reasonable idea, esp. as we get more locales for > languages whose experts may not all have optimal access to communications / > connections. > > Don > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org [mailto:cldr-users- > > bounce@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven > > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 4:11 AM > > To: cldr-users@unicode.org > > Subject: Vetting 2 weeks? > > > > People, > > > > is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the > > vetting > > period? > > > > Leaving aside things I should have fixed in the data submission period > > (part > > of the learning process) I do find that ~1 week is too short for a > > sufficent > > vetting period and communication with other vetters. > > > > But perhaps I am alone in this belief. > > > > What do others think? > > > > -- > > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai > > $B%$%'%k!<%s(B $B%i%&%U%m%C%/(B $B%t%!%s(B $B%G%k(B $B%&%'%k%t%'%s(B > > http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B > > If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? > > > > > > -- _________________________ http://www.redsea-online.com ------=_Part_23689_32178004.1210073831983 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I too do agree.
Jama

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Don Osborn <dzo@bisharat.net> wrote:
This sounds like a reasonable idea, esp. as we get more locales for languages whose experts may not all have optimal access to communications / connections.

Don


> -----Original Message-----
> From: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org [mailto:cldr-users-
> bounce@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 4:11 AM
> To: cldr-users@unicode.org
> Subject: Vetting 2 weeks?
>
> People,
>
> is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the
> vetting
> period?
>
> Leaving aside things I should have fixed in the data submission period
> (part
> of the learning process) I do find that ~1 week is too short for a
> sufficent
> vetting period and communication with other vetters.
>
> But perhaps I am alone in this belief.
>
> What do others think?
>
> --
> Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
> $B%$%'%k!<%s(B $B%i%&%U%m%C%/(B $B%t%!%s(B $B%G%k(B $B%&%'%k%t%'%s(B
> http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
> If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..?








--
_________________________
http://www.redsea-online.com ------=_Part_23689_32178004.1210073831983-- From v-magdad@microsoft.com Wed May 7 12:31:54 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Wed, 07 May 2008 12:31:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m47HVsEi002449 for ; Wed, 7 May 2008 12:31:54 -0500 Received: from tk1-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.46.187) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 7 May 2008 10:31:48 -0700 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.61.91]) by tk1-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.46.187]) with mapi; Wed, 7 May 2008 10:31:43 -0700 From: "Magda Danish (Unicode)" To: "cldr-users@unicode.org" CC: Arne Goetje , "enrico@enricozini.org" Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:31:38 -0700 Subject: FW: Taroko language (trv) Thread-Topic: Taroko language (trv) Thread-Index: AciwBWsy+UDV0ROCRni8QSxMeSCXpgAYhR6g Message-ID: <871A62EA91884849A3BE952CA63832D016BE66081B@NA-EXMSG-C125.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by unicode.org id m47HVsEi002449 X-archive-position: 512 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: v-magdad@microsoft.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users Arne, I am forwarding your email to the CLDR-users list which is the appropriate forum for this kind of questions. Please subscribe to the list and post your CLDR related questions there. Tips about how to subscribe can be found at: http://www.unicode.org/consortium/distlist.html#cldr_list. Regards, Magda -----Original Message----- From: Arne Goetje [mailto:arne@linux.org.tw] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:44 PM To: Magda Danish (Unicode) Cc: enrico@enricozini.org Subject: RE: Taroko language (trv) Dear Magda, we have submitted several strings, which should be enough for the basic coverage (whoever defines that). However, all strings are still 'not approved' and I at least have vetted for all of them. What's the next step to get them approved? Anything else we have to do to get them accepted? Also, how about the fallback values? In several cases I have not added new values, because the fallback values are applicable. However I cannot vote for them, when I try the system tells me I cannot add new values... ?!? Cheers and Thanks Arne - -- Arne Götje (高盛華) PGP/GnuPG key: 1024D/685D1E8C Fingerprint: 2056 F6B7 DEA8 B478 311F 1C34 6E9F D06E 685D 1E8C Key available at wwwkeys.pgp.net. Encrypted e-mail preferred. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIIUG6bp/QbmhdHowRAp1pAJwPcCPf4I79DGgcXBHrvojUvClE8QCg5bVy BpUoUKkR6GTMDVl1EqH0AkE= =Hrfz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From asmodai@in-nomine.org Wed May 7 15:07:18 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Wed, 07 May 2008 15:07:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org (dhammapada.xs4all.nl [82.95.168.248]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m47K7Gwg026069 for ; Wed, 7 May 2008 15:07:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF00C170 for ; Wed, 7 May 2008 22:07:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using ClamAV at in-nomine.org Received: from nexus.in-nomine.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (nexus.domini.in-nomine.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jSvAh+A4SD8d for ; Wed, 7 May 2008 22:07:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: by nexus.in-nomine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C758FC13C; Wed, 7 May 2008 22:07:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:07:14 +0200 From: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven To: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Re: Vetting 2 weeks? Message-ID: <20080507200714.GX1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> References: <20080506081111.GQ1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20080506081111.GQ1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> Organisation: Ninth Circle Enterprises User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.17 (2007-11-01) X-archive-position: 513 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: asmodai@in-nomine.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users -On [20080506 10:26], Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven (asmodai@in-nomine.org) wrote: >is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the vetting >period? Thank you for the current extension as well. :) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? From emmo@us.ibm.com Wed May 7 17:21:16 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Wed, 07 May 2008 17:21:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from e35.co.us.ibm.com (e35.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.153]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m47MLGLE007994; Wed, 7 May 2008 17:21:16 -0500 Received: from d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.227]) by e35.co.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m47ML8ET004672; Wed, 7 May 2008 18:21:08 -0400 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (d03av04.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.170]) by d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.7) with ESMTP id m47ML8CQ168078; Wed, 7 May 2008 16:21:08 -0600 Received: from d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m47ML888005276; Wed, 7 May 2008 16:21:08 -0600 Received: from d03nm116.boulder.ibm.com (d03nm116.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.142]) by d03av04.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m47ML8qr005270; Wed, 7 May 2008 16:21:08 -0600 In-Reply-To: <20080507200714.GX1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> To: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Cc: cldr-users@unicode.org, cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Vetting 2 weeks? X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0 HF277 June 21, 2006 From: John Emmons Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 17:21:07 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D03NM116/03/M/IBM(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 05/07/2008 16:21:07, Serialize complete at 05/07/2008 16:21:07 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 007A82B986257442_=" X-archive-position: 514 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: emmo@us.ibm.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 007A82B986257442_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Jeroen, I know it's not the 2 weeks you asked for, but the committee decided that the 3 day extension was the best that we could do without jeopardizing the release schedule as a whole. After the vetting period is over, we have to do a lot of testing and bug-fixing before we release the final version of the data. I hope that you all can finish your work in the allotted time... Regards, John C. Emmons Globalization Architect IBM Software Group, Austin TX Ph. 512-259-9051 Internet: emmo@us.ibm.com Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Sent by: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org 05/07/2008 03:07 PM To cldr-users@unicode.org cc Subject Re: Vetting 2 weeks? -On [20080506 10:26], Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven (asmodai@in-nomine.org) wrote: >is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the vetting >period? Thank you for the current extension as well. :) -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai $B%$%'%k!<%s(B $B%i%&%U%m%C%/(B $B%t%!%s(B $B%G%k(B $B%&%'%k%t%'%s(B http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..? --=_alternative 007A82B986257442_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-2022-JP"
Jeroen,
    I know it's not the 2 weeks you asked for, but the committee decided that the 3 day extension was the best that we could do without jeopardizing the release schedule as a whole.  After the vetting period is over, we have to do a lot of testing and bug-fixing before we release the final version of the data.  I hope that you all can finish your work in the allotted time...

Regards,

John C. Emmons
Globalization Architect
IBM Software Group, Austin TX
Ph. 512-259-9051
Internet: emmo@us.ibm.com


Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai@in-nomine.org>
Sent by: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org

05/07/2008 03:07 PM

To
cldr-users@unicode.org
cc
Subject
Re: Vetting 2 weeks?





-On [20080506 10:26], Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven (asmodai@in-nomine.org) wrote:
>is there a chance the next release of CLDR will have 2 weeks for the vetting
>period?

Thank you for the current extension as well. :)

--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
$B%$%'%k!<%s(B $B%i%&%U%m%C%/(B $B%t%!%s(B $B%G%k(B $B%&%'%k%t%'%s(B
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
If Winter comes, can Spring be far behind..?
--=_alternative 007A82B986257442_=-- From srl@icu-project.org Mon May 12 15:08:14 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Mon, 12 May 2008 15:08:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: from k2smtpout05-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (k2smtpout05-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.189.57]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m4CK8DTa031025 for ; Mon, 12 May 2008 15:08:14 -0500 Received: (qmail 2363 invoked from network); 12 May 2008 20:08:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ssl.icu-project.org) (208.109.248.225) by k2smtpout05-02.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.189.57) with ESMTP; 12 May 2008 20:08:13 -0000 Received: from monkey.sbay.org ([216.27.178.44] helo=[10.0.0.121]) by ssl.icu-project.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1Jve50-0003hw-6V for cldr-users@unicode.org; Mon, 12 May 2008 12:53:02 -0700 Message-ID: <4828A3AA.4060702@icu-project.org> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:08:10 -0700 From: "Steven R. Loomis" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: [Fwd: Belarusian locale is done] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000109000508000804030803" X-archive-position: 515 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: srl@icu-project.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000109000508000804030803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------000109000508000804030803 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Belarusian locale is done.eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Belarusian locale is done.eml" Return-path: Envelope-to: srl@icu-project.org Delivery-date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:29:45 -0700 Received: from unicode.org ([69.13.187.182]) by ssl.icu-project.org with esmtp (Exim 4.66) (envelope-from ) id 1JvdiT-0003ap-LE for srl@icu-project.org; Mon, 12 May 2008 12:29:45 -0700 Received: from smtp-out.google.com (smtp-out.google.com [216.239.33.17]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4CJisRw019816 for ; Mon, 12 May 2008 14:44:54 -0500 Received: from zps19.corp.google.com (zps19.corp.google.com [172.25.146.19]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id m4CJinvF008161 for ; Mon, 12 May 2008 20:44:50 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1210621490; bh=yMkFstHzgpQh3mD0qGgwBtSWs5U=; h=DomainKey-Signature:Message-ID:Date:From:To:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=yVaNzeAEO21LtCvgdogYxuLvewiIZpPfgG51vZRfyaUeNn0tSt SQWHwgztKn/Loy0O6hvuts1tVs/UkuJJ9PwQ== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=beta; d=google.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=LMwA7W8EXnnKFEPBUgdJ5YB3Fd8Z0zOQUu+cRfu5cwvBzu5ZPdLRli/fHCEYAR7tq 0499lWqGVkFRhwPm7PW9w== Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com (rvbf25.prod.google.com [10.140.82.25]) by zps19.corp.google.com with ESMTP id m4CJiW7A005001 for ; Mon, 12 May 2008 12:44:49 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id f25so2468105rvb.54 for ; Mon, 12 May 2008 12:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.136.1 with SMTP id j1mr3857203rvd.233.1210621488748; Mon, 12 May 2008 12:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.189.7 with HTTP; Mon, 12 May 2008 12:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:44:48 -0400 From: "Ihar Mahaniok" To: surveytool@unicode.org Subject: Belarusian locale is done MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5121_1376949.1210621488731" ------=_Part_5121_1376949.1210621488731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi, it seems that Belarusian locale for CLDR 1.6 is done. there are some bugs, though, that lead to "unconfirmed", "errors" and "warnings", but those are irrelevant as I see, and the locale is fully ok for basic level of coverage. please let me know if I can fix/clarify something. Ihar -- Ihar Mahaniok. ------=_Part_5121_1376949.1210621488731 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi,

it seems that Belarusian locale for CLDR 1.6 is done. there are some bugs, though, that lead to "unconfirmed", "errors" and "warnings", but those are irrelevant as I see, and the locale is fully ok for basic level of coverage.

please let me know if I can fix/clarify something.

Ihar

--
Ihar Mahaniok. ------=_Part_5121_1376949.1210621488731-- --------------000109000508000804030803-- From yury.tarasievich@gmail.com Tue May 13 00:52:46 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 13 May 2008 00:52:47 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.175]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4D5qjf7020991 for ; Tue, 13 May 2008 00:52:46 -0500 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id a2so976574ugf.27 for ; Mon, 12 May 2008 22:52:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:date:to:subject:content-type:mime-version:references:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent:from; bh=CWgq3TI0ovtNqcXtsVDi6G9SgQkKfXJl+dkLsam57tw=; b=MA0xKc0ea3EiBrw4drxrIrJ/degVkrkbESBktphQC9At0RU7hdYSP5Sz2v+QqN1sNnXYD1jml0ZqgTJdOSEI02ADpjx+FulC6YSrC8Wc6wO4uBRZSqrUe2y5HVkZXHaQViNhpAJNG0f+5+Qo+cjoDoydXNsXjiyYh3QYxvqutKM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=date:to:subject:content-type:mime-version:references:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:in-reply-to:user-agent:from; b=efqOFetqdou+t1OLLF+K/+ruc9S+VEZ6wB1QNMGuZJzQckRP/2KTYBlgm8IhVsG/XUx+4bEuUI9QJUBCncmuqUJ4/tPN5VKNRszIGAXoTdo/9OE+ZZFx/OaBhkB4a64Qxv/hg+Sq80zO72L4FYLGKkPv/DDE4NV8jsLb5m07wtc= Received: by 10.66.250.1 with SMTP id x1mr6662281ugh.57.1210657964895; Mon, 12 May 2008 22:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mobile29.grsu.by ( [81.30.81.200]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p32sm3143041ugc.34.2008.05.12.22.52.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 12 May 2008 22:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 08:53:13 +0300 To: "Steven R. Loomis" , cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Belarusian locale is done] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4828A3AA.4060702@icu-project.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4828A3AA.4060702@icu-project.org> User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.27 (Linux) From: Yury Tarasievich X-archive-position: 516 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: yury.tarasievich@gmail.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users On Mon, 12 May 2008 23:08:10 +0300, Steven R. Loomis wrote: Sorry, it's somewhat unclear, how exactly was it "done"? --- From wunnakoko@gmail.com Tue May 13 02:09:06 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 13 May 2008 02:09:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.159]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4D795QH031915 for ; Tue, 13 May 2008 02:09:06 -0500 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l27so2362113fgb.9 for ; Tue, 13 May 2008 00:09:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=CuUSyxw01HN4OG+kTfM9d+s0XKOXPY92uPNbU76Xjzw=; b=Bp73EJVGDS+4U+T4+vzLX1DxJRXorAI9RZsLD6EbUr6DXwIzQuka5D3L1M1w0h40YgjsHmSAsQZiTgh1GRCOu8wbza/HTs4SKxz7SVM993g0hzlcf92Bo9hSSFvHxp7AT3DGyxCNN8Izx2HDqaY2QpWEnMVqSJ8Yb+cSnROcSow= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=x51WqZjdfA+2WrCh0rlY+WYWcJF944q0wsWBsckKcqk5ZJbzNtIOKR3tilgtCMObNUEB8f3IdzihipgxuYk/dSPchGSVw8sY0Z7mauOlMNYo3SUy8zG2oB/dnRwqvLjQOLEVjRl/NX1h1IEpFaR3Q9hxToaj2fmyRbTVZbwv+BI= Received: by 10.82.112.3 with SMTP id k3mr902225buc.56.1210662544470; Tue, 13 May 2008 00:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.118.14 with HTTP; Tue, 13 May 2008 00:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 14:09:04 +0700 From: "Wunna Ko Ko" To: cfynn@gmx.net Subject: Re: language code my - Burmese Cc: cldr-users@unicode.org, "Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven" In-Reply-To: <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7076_30334127.1210662544466" References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> X-archive-position: 517 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: wunnakoko@gmail.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users ------=_Part_7076_30334127.1210662544466 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Sir, In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or ethnic of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of ethnics living in the country formerly named as Burma and now as Myanmar. I mentioned it in http://wunnakoko.googlepages.com/Thesis.pdf In history, the king built the country "Myanmar", means "Fast & Hard", after it collaborate with other ethnics which include Burmese, Mon, Shan, Rakhine (Araken), Karen, etc. But when British invaded, since about 60% of the population is Burmese, they write the country name in English as Burma to represent the most populated ethnic Burmese. If it supposed to be changed all the term "Burmese" into "Myanmar", it should be changed "Tibeto-Burman" into "Tibeto-Myanmar". It will make a lot of complication in linguistic issues. I think it is better to use "Myanmar" when it is necessary to refer to all the languages or ethnics in the country and the name of the country where "Burmese" to refer a particular ethnic or language or script. With Best Regards, Wunna Ko Ko On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:09 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > English? - The UK Government and the BBC both still almost always use > "Burma" in preference to "Myanmar". > > "Myanmar" is the term preferred by the military junta - and apparently not > by most other parties in Burma. > > > > Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: > > > Given the global shift towards using Myanmar instead of Burma, will the > > English term also reflect this change on the language? > > > > So Myanmar instead of Burmese. > > > > I ask this since more and more official documentation worldwide is > > changing > > accordingly. > > > > > *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** > > -- Wunna Ko Ko ------------------------------------------- Get Paid To Read Emails. Free To Join Now! http://www.emailcashpro.com/?source=Email&r=onlinestore ------=_Part_7076_30334127.1210662544466 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear Sir,

In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or ethnic of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of ethnics living in the country formerly named as Burma and now as Myanmar.

I mentioned it in http://wunnakoko.googlepages.com/Thesis.pdf

In history, the king built the country "Myanmar", means "Fast & Hard", after it collaborate with other ethnics which include Burmese, Mon, Shan, Rakhine (Araken), Karen, etc. But when British invaded, since about 60% of the population is Burmese, they write the country name in English as Burma to represent the most populated ethnic Burmese.

If it supposed to be changed all the term "Burmese" into "Myanmar", it should be changed "Tibeto-Burman" into "Tibeto-Myanmar". It will make a lot of complication in linguistic issues.

I think it is better to use "Myanmar" when it is necessary to refer to all the languages or ethnics in the country and the name of the country where "Burmese" to refer a particular ethnic or language or script.

With Best Regards,

Wunna Ko Ko

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 4:09 AM, Christopher Fynn <cfynn@gmx.net> wrote:
English? - The UK Government and the BBC both still almost always use "Burma" in preference to "Myanmar".

"Myanmar" is the term preferred by the military junta - and apparently not by most other parties in  Burma.



Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote:
Given the global shift towards using Myanmar instead of Burma, will the
English term also reflect this change on the language?

So Myanmar instead of Burmese.

I ask this since more and more official documentation worldwide is changing
accordingly.


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Wunna Ko Ko
-------------------------------------------
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http://www.emailcashpro.com/?source=Email&r=onlinestore ------=_Part_7076_30334127.1210662544466-- From verdy_p@wanadoo.fr Tue May 13 04:56:28 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 13 May 2008 04:56:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from smtp2a.orange.fr (smtp2a.orange.fr [80.12.242.139]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4D9uRk8005221 for ; Tue, 13 May 2008 04:56:28 -0500 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf2a07.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 51A35700008E; Tue, 13 May 2008 11:56:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from HARNON (APoitiers-258-1-110-150.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.50.109.150]) by mwinf2a07.orange.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 781037000087; Tue, 13 May 2008 11:56:21 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080513095621491.781037000087@mwinf2a07.orange.fr Reply-To: From: "Philippe Verdy" To: "'Wunna Ko Ko'" , Cc: , "'Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven'" References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> Subject: RE: language code my - Burmese Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:56:14 +0200 Organization: Ordinateur Personnel Message-ID: <01d601c8b4df$952b51d0$0a01a8c0@HARNON> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01D7_01C8B4F0.58B421D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Aci0yzYnWcNa1QLcTfO3a2TonNHU5AAEhr7g In-Reply-To: <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> X-archive-position: 518 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: verdy_p@wanadoo.fr Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D7_01C8B4F0.58B421D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Although I did not have the details about the history of this Myanmar = term, I already knew that Myanmar was refering to multiple ethnics and = languages. But here, we are still speaking about the Burmese script and the Burmese language, and not about Karen, or the various Mon-Khmer languages that = have their own separate codes and their language family code. =20 I do agree that the country code only should reflect the union of = peoples and that Myanmar is correct here because it is supposed to represent the current political status accordingto the ISO 3166-1 standard that = changed the BU code to MY; but not the names of language and script (and their codes) which effectively Burmese and not Myanmarese: the unification = does not exist in the languages (that belong to distinct families) and their scripts. The use of the "my" language code really makes unnecessary linguistic complication issues, when in fact it is only used to refer to = the Burmese language that is quite abusively being refered by the military = junta to be the national language for all communities. =20 So there is the Burmese language written with the Burmese script, and = used in Myanmar and other surrounding countries. The so called "Myanmarese language" is coded "bu-MY" or more completely "bu-burm-MY" (I have no = idea what the "Myanmarese" script represents, except possibly a normalized official orthography for Burmese in Myanmar and a subset of the = effective Burmese script, i.e. a regional variant). _____ =20 De : cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org = [mailto:cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org] De la part de Wunna Ko Ko Envoy=E9 : mardi 13 mai 2008 09:09 =C0 : cfynn@gmx.net Cc : cldr-users@unicode.org; Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Objet : Re: language code my - Burmese Dear Sir, In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or ethnic = of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of ethnics living in the country formerly named as Burma and now as Myanmar. I mentioned it in http://wunnakoko.googlepages.com/Thesis.pdf In history, the king built the country "Myanmar", means "Fast & Hard", = after it collaborate with other ethnics which include Burmese, Mon, Shan, = Rakhine (Araken), Karen, etc. But when British invaded, since about 60% of the population is Burmese, they write the country name in English as Burma = to represent the most populated ethnic Burmese. If it supposed to be changed all the term "Burmese" into "Myanmar", it should be changed "Tibeto-Burman" into "Tibeto-Myanmar". It will make a = lot of complication in linguistic issues. I think it is better to use "Myanmar" when it is necessary to refer to = all the languages or ethnics in the country and the name of the country = where "Burmese" to refer a particular ethnic or language or script. ------=_NextPart_000_01D7_01C8B4F0.58B421D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Although I did not have the details about the = history of=20 this Myanmar term, I already knew that Myanmar was refering to multiple = ethnics=20 and languages.
But here, we are still speaking about the = Burmese script=20 and the Burmese language, and not about Karen, or the various Mon-Khmer=20 languages that have their own separate codes and their language family=20 code.
 
I do agree that the country code only = should reflect=20 the union of peoples and that Myanmar is correct here because it is = supposed to=20 represent the current political status accordingto the ISO 3166-1 = standard that=20 changed the BU code to MY; but not the names of language and script (and = their=20 codes) which effectively Burmese and not Myanmarese: the unification = does not=20 exist in the languages (that belong to distinct families) and their = scripts. The=20 use of the "my" language code really makes unnecessary linguistic = complication=20 issues, when in fact it is only used to refer to the Burmese language = that is=20 quite abusively being refered by the military junta to be the national=20 language for all communities.
 
So there is the Burmese language written with = the Burmese=20 script, and used in Myanmar and other surrounding countries. The so = called=20 "Myanmarese language" is coded "bu-MY" or more completely "bu-burm-MY" = (I have=20 no idea what the "Myanmarese" script represents, except possibly a = normalized=20 official orthography for Burmese in Myanmar and a subset of the = effective=20 Burmese script, i.e. a regional variant).

De : = cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org=20 [mailto:cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org] De la part de Wunna Ko=20 Ko
Envoy=E9 : mardi 13 mai 2008 = 09:09
=C0 :=20 cfynn@gmx.net
Cc : cldr-users@unicode.org; Jeroen = Ruigrok van=20 der Werven
Objet : Re: language code my -=20 Burmese

Dear Sir,

In one Burmese book, it said that = "Burmese" refers=20 a language or ethnic of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a = group of=20 ethnics living in the country formerly named as Burma and now as=20 Myanmar.

I mentioned it in http://wunnakoko.goo= glepages.com/Thesis.pdf

In=20 history, the king built the country "Myanmar", means "Fast & = Hard", after=20 it collaborate with other ethnics which include Burmese, Mon, Shan, = Rakhine=20 (Araken), Karen, etc. But when British invaded, since about 60% of the = population is Burmese, they write the country name in English as Burma = to=20 represent the most populated ethnic Burmese.

If it supposed to = be=20 changed all the term "Burmese" into "Myanmar", it should be changed=20 "Tibeto-Burman" into "Tibeto-Myanmar". It will make a lot of = complication in=20 linguistic issues.

I think it is better to use "Myanmar" when = it is=20 necessary to refer to all the languages or ethnics in the country and = the name=20 of the country where "Burmese" to refer a particular ethnic or = language or=20 script.
------=_NextPart_000_01D7_01C8B4F0.58B421D0-- From patrick.andries@xcential.com Tue May 13 14:12:21 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 13 May 2008 14:12:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: from skywalker.myinternetwebhost.com (skywalker.myinternetwebhost.com [69.90.236.45]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4DJCKBl022677 for ; Tue, 13 May 2008 14:12:21 -0500 Received: from dsl-205-205-142-75.cooptel.qc.ca [205.205.142.75] by skywalker.myinternetwebhost.com with SMTP; Tue, 13 May 2008 12:12:17 -0700 Message-ID: <4829E7EC.9000605@xcential.com> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 15:11:40 -0400 From: Patrick Andries User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wunna Ko Ko CC: cfynn@gmx.net, cldr-users@unicode.org, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: language code my - Burmese References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090309090903020208000106" X-archive-position: 519 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: patrick.andries@xcential.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090309090903020208000106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wunna Ko Ko a écrit : > Dear Sir, > > In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or > ethnic of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of ethnics > living in the country formerly named as Burma and now as Myanmar. I have a faint memory that this indeed the reasoning behind the country's change name, but that in fact the Myan part comes from a Môn word (mren ?) refering to the...Burmese invaders around the Xth century. Wiki says : « Within the Burmese language, /Myanmar/ is the written, literary name of the country, while /Bama/ or /Bamar/ (from which "Burma" derives) is the oral, colloquial name. In spoken Burmese, the distinction is less clear than the English transliteration suggests.» P. A. --------------090309090903020208000106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wunna Ko Ko a écrit :
Dear Sir,

In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or ethnic of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of ethnics living in the country formerly named as Burma and now as Myanmar.
I have a faint memory that this indeed the reasoning behind the country's change name, but that in fact the Myan part comes from a Môn word (mren ?) refering to the...Burmese invaders around the Xth century.

Wiki says : « Within the Burmese language, Myanmar is the written, literary name of the country, while Bama or Bamar (from which "Burma" derives) is the oral, colloquial name. In spoken Burmese, the distinction is less clear than the English transliteration suggests.»

P. A.

--------------090309090903020208000106-- From victorlin21@gmail.com Wed May 14 23:07:16 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Wed, 14 May 2008 23:07:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.225]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4F47DUt029538 for ; Wed, 14 May 2008 23:07:16 -0500 Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so254666rvb.51 for ; Wed, 14 May 2008 21:07:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=DsL9GcMJHybkSmiWPF606Pt67rxbSQGn0stBPnWJ5uk=; b=jDS8cLeVzoKXasO+4h1KF9QG5GZg4ufAES6Sc3ZJY1SQlK8BKFDMU7qii2pL+J8aapXgSTxxMrHGhtUCxyInCINgd8xBWMKt8EZBwHWFN/qLADY/L85bqp+uXDAJByBXPLRJP747Sg+KRLm+0FPYXMNVymd3JkFRj60VHjvZmQ0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=c6e8hGyAX2BafWCSBkUsiD6NnO9bb+1x4ou5nBILCCDFUqOkSeg8HN30AiWqhwyZUmYMG1xcfYaeUtjYnN+y83gClM1plDA5ztghuLH8pD5/aXPEks6AIsWOOBg7dOu0Pmb8RCu8v47x5+LFPWBKcE1XW/KsGDrZfb0nSRfYjLQ= Received: by 10.141.21.6 with SMTP id y6mr875179rvi.18.1210824433467; Wed, 14 May 2008 21:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.34.9 with HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2008 21:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9a00ec5a0805142107q488af8bl7929a9be3142a401@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:07:13 +0800 From: "Victor San Kho Lin" To: "Patrick Andries" Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: language code my - Burmese Cc: "Wunna Ko Ko" , cfynn@gmx.net, cldr-users@unicode.org, "Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven" In-Reply-To: <4829E7EC.9000605@xcential.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2990_10503691.1210824433454" References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> <4829E7EC.9000605@xcential.com> X-archive-position: 520 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: victorlin21@gmail.com Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users ------=_Part_2990_10503691.1210824433454 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear All, I hope, we could drop current political conflict while discussing this issue. Because it cant be helped, if longing to settle this issue by authority. As Ko Wunna Ko Ko said, I would agree his Thesis paper as well as the historical background that he mentioned of. Burmese is a script or language that used by Burma people who majority of one country. Therefore, Burmese language become main and common language of a country, thus, Myanmar. There is no Myanmarese. (When people say to identify us by "Are you Myanmarese?", more or less of us become frustrated and he/she will try to explain you for a long and uncertain story about these naming. Unless someone who expert from this field, you shall get certain story.) Our instance is probably the same as Chinese and the Mandarin. Like China > Chinese > Chinese-Mandarin Myanmar > Burmese > Burmese-Myanmar (from backward compatibility from British Colonial era, it would also yield to the following.) Myanmar > Burmese > Burma-Myanmar Other derivative such as Burman-Myanmar, Bama-Myanmar, Bamar-Myanmar, are really not recommended usage as it all derivative form from proper English phonetic spelling of "Burma". Thus, those derivative shall be obsolete (Unless only for history study). As for other races, which shall have; Myanmar > Mon > Mon-Myanmar Myanmar > Chin > Chin-Myanmar Myanmar > Kachin > Kachin-Myanmar etc.. While we are oversea, and filling immigration/checkpoint forms, for example one minority Myanmar race, we would like to fill like; Country - Myanmar Citizen - Myanmar Race - Karen Above info is actual fact and feel ease for people who minority race from Myanmar. But sometime, immigration officer confused and force us to fill like the following though who are different races; Country - Burma Citizen - Burmese Race - Burmese This is really uncomfortable but no choice to accept it while we could not against much chance to immigration officer in time being. I hope, this is due to being very lagged or being late update information into international community. Also this is because of very long and still un-solving political conflict of our country. Thousands of country talents/scholars are being wiped away by this political conflict. Thus, thi= s information did not boldly discuss and shade-light into international stage= . Therefore, a lot of official are still remaining in very old informations while other are not. Thus, where the complication arise. Regards, Victor On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:11 AM, Patrick Andries < patrick.andries@xcential.com> wrote: > Wunna Ko Ko a =E9crit : > > Dear Sir, > > In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or ethnic o= f > a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of ethnics living in th= e > country formerly named as Burma and now as Myanmar. > > I have a faint memory that this indeed the reasoning behind the country's > change name, but that in fact the Myan part comes from a M=F4n word (mren= ?) > refering to the...Burmese invaders around the Xth century. > > Wiki says : =AB Within the Burmese language, *Myanmar* is the written, > literary name of the country, > while *Bama* or *Bamar* (from which "Burma" derives) is the oral, > colloquial name. In spoken > Burmese, the distinction is less clear than the English transliteration > suggests.=BB > > P. A. > > ------=_Part_2990_10503691.1210824433454 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

Dear All,

I hope, we could dro= p current political conflict while discussing this issue. Because it cant b= e helped, if longing to settle this issue by authority.

As Ko Wunna Ko Ko said, I would agree his Thesis paper as well as the = historical background that he mentioned of. Burmese is a script or language= that used by Burma people who majority of one country. Therefore, Burmese = language become main and common language of a country, thus, Myanmar.

There is no Myanmarese. (When people say to identify us= by "Are you Myanmarese?", more or less of us become frustra= ted and he/she will try to explain you for a long and uncertain story about= these naming. Unless someone who expert from this field, you shall get cer= tain story.)

Our instance is probably the same as Chinese and the&nb= sp;Mandarin.
Like China > Chinese > Chinese-Mandarin
<= div>
Myanmar > Burmese > Burmese-Myanmar
(fro= m backward compatibility from British Colonial era, it would= also yield to the following.)
Myanmar > Burmese > Burma-Myanmar 

Other derivative such as Burman-Myanmar, Bama-Myanmar, Bamar-Myanmar, are = really not recommended usage as it all derivative form from proper English = phonetic spelling of "Burma". Thus, those derivative shall be obs= olete (Unless only for history study).

As for other races, which shall have;

Myanmar > Mon > Mon-Myanmar
Myanmar > Chin > = Chin-Myanmar
Myanmar > Kachin > Kachin-Myanmar
etc..

While we are oversea, and filling immig= ration/checkpoint forms, for example one minority Myanmar race, we would li= ke to fill like;
Country - Myanmar
Citizen - Myanmar
Race - Karen

Above info is actual fact and fe= el ease for people who minority race from Myanmar.

But sometime, immigration officer confused and force us to fill like the f= ollowing though who are different races;
Country - Burma
Citizen - Burmese
Race - Burmese
This is really uncomfortable but no choice to accept it while we c= ould not against much chance to immigration officer in time being.

I hope, this is due to being very lagged or being late = update information into international community. Also this is because of ve= ry long and still un-solving political conflict of our country. Thousands o= f country talents/scholars are being wiped away by this political conflict.= Thus, this information did not boldly discuss and shade-light into interna= tional stage. Therefore, a lot of official are still remaining in very old = informations while other are not. Thus, where the complication arise.


Regards,
Victor

=


On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:11 AM, P= atrick Andries <patrick.= andries@xcential.com> wrote:
=20
Wunna Ko Ko a =E9crit :
Dear Sir,

In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or = ethnic of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of ethnics l= iving in the country formerly named as Burma and now as Myanmar.
I have a faint memory that this indeed the reasoning behind the country's change name, but that in fact the Myan part comes from a M=F4= n word (mren ?) refering to the...Burmese invaders around the Xth century.
Wiki says : =AB Within the Burmese language, Myanmar is the written, literary name of the country, while Bama or Bamar (from which "Burma" derives) is= the oral, colloquial name. In spoken Burmese, the distinction is less clear than the English transliteration suggests.=BB

P. A.


------=_Part_2990_10503691.1210824433454-- From cfynn@gmx.net Thu May 15 00:22:24 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Thu, 15 May 2008 00:22:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m4F5MN47014888 for ; Thu, 15 May 2008 00:22:24 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 May 2008 05:22:15 -0000 Received: from h1b3.cyberstar.com (EHLO [127.0.0.1]) [202.174.9.179] by mail.gmx.net (mp009) with SMTP; 15 May 2008 07:22:15 +0200 X-Authenticated: #9568751 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18ng38SUhMnP6L2jxkVzJr71n1zhp49zKpqfhAGkf /L8ehzXOT7leeC Message-ID: <482BC7E1.6060203@gmx.net> Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:19:29 +0600 From: Christopher Fynn Reply-To: cfynn@gmx.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cldr-users@unicode.org CC: Victor San Kho Lin , Wunna Ko Ko , Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: language code my - Burmese References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> <4829E7EC.9000605@xcential.com> <9a00ec5a0805142107q488af8bl7929a9be3142a401@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9a00ec5a0805142107q488af8bl7929a9be3142a401@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080515-0, 15/05/2008), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-archive-position: 521 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: cfynn@gmx.net Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users Since we are only talking about Language and Locale here, for the main official language used in Myanmar is it correct to say: Language = Burmese Script = Burmese Country = Myanmar ? - Chris Victor San Kho Lin wrote: > > Dear All, > > I hope, we could drop current political conflict while discussing this > issue. Because it cant be helped, if longing to settle this issue by > authority. > > As Ko Wunna Ko Ko said, I would agree his Thesis paper as well as the > historical background that he mentioned of. Burmese is a script or > language that used by Burma people who majority of one country. > Therefore, Burmese language become main and common language of a > country, thus, Myanmar. > > There is no Myanmarese. (When people say to identify us by "Are you > Myanmarese?", more or less of us become frustrated and he/she will try > to explain you for a long and uncertain story about these naming. Unless > someone who expert from this field, you shall get certain story.) > > Our instance is probably the same as Chinese and the Mandarin. > Like China > Chinese > Chinese-Mandarin > > Myanmar > Burmese > Burmese-Myanmar > (from backward compatibility from British Colonial era, it would also > yield to the following.) > Myanmar > Burmese > Burma-Myanmar > > Other derivative such as Burman-Myanmar, Bama-Myanmar, Bamar-Myanmar, > are really not recommended usage as it all derivative form from proper > English phonetic spelling of "Burma". Thus, those derivative shall be > obsolete (Unless only for history study). > > As for other races, which shall have; > > Myanmar > Mon > Mon-Myanmar > Myanmar > Chin > Chin-Myanmar > Myanmar > Kachin > Kachin-Myanmar > etc.. > > While we are oversea, and filling immigration/checkpoint forms, for > example one minority Myanmar race, we would like to fill like; > Country - Myanmar > Citizen - Myanmar > Race - Karen > > Above info is actual fact and feel ease for people who minority race > from Myanmar. > > But sometime, immigration officer confused and force us to fill like the > following though who are different races; > Country - Burma > Citizen - Burmese > Race - Burmese > This is really uncomfortable but no choice to accept it while we could > not against much chance to immigration officer in time being. > > I hope, this is due to being very lagged or being late update > information into international community. Also this is because of very > long and still un-solving political conflict of our country. Thousands > of country talents/scholars are being wiped away by this political > conflict. Thus, this information did not boldly discuss and shade-light > into international stage. Therefore, a lot of official are still > remaining in very old informations while other are not. Thus, where the > complication arise. > > > Regards, > Victor > > > > On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:11 AM, Patrick Andries > > wrote: > > Wunna Ko Ko a écrit : >> Dear Sir, >> >> In one Burmese book, it said that "Burmese" refers a language or >> ethnic of a particular while "Myanmar" refers to as a group of >> ethnics living in the country formerly named as Burma and now as >> Myanmar. > I have a faint memory that this indeed the reasoning behind the > country's change name, but that in fact the Myan part comes from a > Môn word (mren ?) refering to the...Burmese invaders around the Xth > century. > > Wiki says : « Within the Burmese language, /Myanmar/ is the written, > literary name of the > country, while /Bama/ or /Bamar/ (from which "Burma" derives) is the > oral, colloquial name. In > spoken Burmese, the distinction is less clear than the English > transliteration suggests.» > > P. A. > > From wunnakoko@gmail.com Thu May 15 00:26:15 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Thu, 15 May 2008 00:26:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.226]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4F5QEuC016063 for ; Thu, 15 May 2008 00:26:15 -0500 Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so279387rvb.51 for ; Wed, 14 May 2008 22:26:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=+hvg94bQedXF8zXTLAaEmH3PxXjsJYP5x0oaLoNEQ7g=; b=cilpHypaA+CgO7OZkqreH03Ovu2lD1nRV93k3soa5uJzHID/px2GOCoT8/i9U0nho7sSqRXnydH5ksbOvzQTQjh7pGPWsuEmCqA5538owAzLP2BucA/DxM88URKAsXKeJcqKfApiOk0dUS7G0dJ2413QcauTRvLbb+wvi9NBYEQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=rUlDp6UP6jj4M40FULpS+Bym1OEXyxEekfQJKHeQg2skBduZIuOfbJbOXY8uK80QcVg5iOItKDW9oBRxxTpGhkADSmsRKt5Lu8ERfiN5HPPAXflsh96bCe0ACtY20veFuNpcbKqzifPZ/KJhfiLrWXdFAR/x1554FZUrg2Fma7U= Received: by 10.141.21.6 with SMTP id y6mr907015rvi.18.1210829174420; Wed, 14 May 2008 22:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.172.20 with HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2008 22:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <64d12b7c0805142226g582b3bd5tdf29513dc11ea6df@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:26:14 +0700 From: "Wunna Ko Ko" To: cfynn@gmx.net Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: language code my - Burmese Cc: cldr-users@unicode.org, "Victor San Kho Lin" , "Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven" In-Reply-To: <482BC7E1.6060203@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3934_23041095.1210829174398" References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> 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bGwiPjxicj4tLSA8YnI+V3VubmEgS28gS288YnI+LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTxicj5HZXQgUGFpZCBUbyBSZWFkIEVtYWlscy4gRnJlZSBUbyBKb2lu IE5vdyE8YnI+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL3d3dy5lbWFpbGNhc2hwcm8uY29tLz9zb3VyY2U9RW1h aWwmYW1wO3I9b25saW5lc3RvcmUiPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZW1haWxjYXNocHJvLmNvbS8/c291cmNl PUVtYWlsJmFtcDtyPW9ubGluZXN0b3JlPC9hPgo= ------=_Part_3934_23041095.1210829174398-- From devel@thanlwinsoft.org Thu May 15 06:11:57 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Thu, 15 May 2008 06:11:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4FBBa0P001547 for ; Thu, 15 May 2008 06:11:57 -0500 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.internal [10.202.2.42]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928721093FE; Thu, 15 May 2008 07:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from heartbeat1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 15 May 2008 07:11:36 -0400 X-Sasl-enc: byk3Nys11yRLxUA+2NthpweAzhC4kKTPjPr6pEnTtkul 1210849895 Received: from [192.168.0.3] (stribley.demon.co.uk [80.177.108.117]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 53CB8B21A; Thu, 15 May 2008 07:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <482C1A55.2000101@thanlwinsoft.org> Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:11:17 +0100 From: Keith Stribley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cfynn@gmx.net CC: cldr-users@unicode.org, Victor San Kho Lin , Wunna Ko Ko , Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven Subject: Re: [BULK] Re: language code my - Burmese References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> <4829E7EC.9000605@xcential.com> <9a00ec5a0805142107q488af8bl7929a9be3142a401@mail.gmail.com> <482BC7E1.6060203@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <482BC7E1.6060203@gmx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-archive-position: 523 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: devel@thanlwinsoft.org Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users Christopher Fynn wrote: > > Since we are only talking about Language and Locale here, for the main > official language used in Myanmar is it correct to say: > > Language = Burmese > Script = Burmese > Country = Myanmar If script refers to the whole of the Myanmar code block (1000-109F) in Unicode, then it is important to remember that since Unicode 5.1 it now includes code points for Mon, Karen, Kayah, Shan and Rumai Palaung (languages spoken by ethnic groups in Myanmar) in addition to just Burmese. Many of the code points in the Myanmar script block are used by several of the languages found in the country of Myanmar, though languages like Chin use the Latin script. I therefore wonder if Script = Myanmar is more appropriate. Regards, Keith From cfynn@gmx.net Thu May 15 07:25:38 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Thu, 15 May 2008 07:25:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id m4FCPbpT020213 for ; Thu, 15 May 2008 07:25:38 -0500 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 May 2008 12:25:30 -0000 Received: from cust71.fastlink.bt (EHLO [127.0.0.1]) [202.89.26.71] by mail.gmx.net (mp003) with SMTP; 15 May 2008 14:25:30 +0200 X-Authenticated: #9568751 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18t7N8/YaoteFaRC8rm4ha8mLfsrIS3YUuKZvuXDz oUH0S5OAU8PjkA Message-ID: <482C2B1A.6020605@gmx.net> Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:22:50 +0600 From: Christopher Fynn Reply-To: cfynn@gmx.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (Windows/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Stribley , cldr-users@unicode.org Subject: Re: language code my - Burmese References: <20080504090333.GD1016@nexus.in-nomine.org> <481E2626.8070102@gmx.net> <64d12b7c0805130009o499aa3frfde98e56889cbc67@mail.gmail.com> <4829E7EC.9000605@xcential.com> <9a00ec5a0805142107q488af8bl7929a9be3142a401@mail.gmail.com> <482BC7E1.6060203@gmx.net> <482C1A55.2000101@thanlwinsoft.org> In-Reply-To: <482C1A55.2000101@thanlwinsoft.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=neXtPaRt_1210855207" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080515-0, 15/05/2008), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-archive-position: 524 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: cfynn@gmx.net Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users ------=neXtPaRt_1210855207 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith Stribley wrote: > Christopher Fynn wrote: >> >> Since we are only talking about Language and Locale here, for the main >> official language used in Myanmar is it correct to say: >> >> Language = Burmese >> Script = Burmese >> Country = Myanmar > If script refers to the whole of the Myanmar code block (1000-109F) in > Unicode, then it is important to remember that since Unicode 5.1 it now > includes code points for Mon, Karen, Kayah, Shan and Rumai Palaung > (languages spoken by ethnic groups in Myanmar) in addition to just > Burmese. Many of the code points in the Myanmar script block are used by > several of the languages found in the country of Myanmar, though > languages like Chin use the Latin script. > I therefore wonder if Script = Myanmar is more appropriate. "Latin" script contains many characters the Romans never used and "Arabic" script contains some characters only used for writing the Persian language which is not Arabic ... However Unicode / iso10646 for some reason (? political) chose to call the script "Myanmar" so I guess since we are referencing those standards "Myanmar script" may be appropriate in this case. However since apparently Myanmar (n.) = Burma Myanma (adj.) = Burmese Perhaps Unicode should have used "Myanma script" According to : "Despite the controversy in the years preceding independence, it remains certain that historically (before the 20th century) both the names Bama and Myanma referred only to the polities established by Burmese speaking people in the Irrawaddy River valley, and neither of these two names included the current minorities of Burma. Historically, there has never been a name for the whole country Burma, which is in part a creation of the British colonial authorities, who annexed to their colony of Burma some peripheral areas (inhabited by non-Burmese speaking people) which had never been part of the old Burman kingdom." If this is correct the "inclusiveness" argument for using the name "Myanmar" seems to be a red-herring In fact it seems all the present regime did was change the *English* language name of the country. I never quite figured out why governments should be able to legislate on what a place is called in _English_. The Dutch don't seem to mind whether we call their country "Holland" of the "Netherlands". - Chris > Regards, > Keith > ------=neXtPaRt_1210855207 Content-Type: text/plain; *** VIRUS SCANNED by FASTLINK ISP *** ------=neXtPaRt_1210855207-- From dzo@bisharat.net Tue May 20 10:24:19 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list cldr-users); Tue, 20 May 2008 10:24:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from kabissa.org (113166.kabissa.org [72.32.199.201]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m4KFOJOJ021835 for ; Tue, 20 May 2008 10:24:19 -0500 Received: (qmail 13319 invoked from network); 20 May 2008 10:24:18 -0500 Received: from pool-71-255-255-167.washdc.east.verizon.net (HELO IBM92AA25595C4) (71.255.255.167) by 72.32.229.137 with SMTP; 20 May 2008 10:24:17 -0500 From: "Don Osborn" To: Subject: Locales, macrolanguages & clusters Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:24:11 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c8ba8d$8e24f180$aa6ed480$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8BA6C.07135180" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Aci6jY2IOogMAcSHSVCS2lVHaZ4oSQ== Content-Language: en-us X-archive-position: 525 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: cldr-users-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: dzo@bisharat.net Precedence: bulk X-list: cldr-users This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8BA6C.07135180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are there any examples of locales written both for a macrolanguage and one or more specific language covered by the macrolanguage? Is that possible under CLDR? Are there any examples of locales written under codes indicated for "cluster" and not "macrolanguage"? Is that possible? Don Osborn Bisharat.net ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C8BA6C.07135180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Are there any examples of locales written both for = a macrolanguage and one or more specific language covered by the = macrolanguage? Is that possible under CLDR?

 

Are there any examples of locales written under = codes indicated for "cluster" and not "macrolanguage"? Is = that possible?

 

Don Osborn