From pim.rietbroek@xs4all.nl Thu Apr 21 18:30:34 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list hebrew); Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:03:18 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.33]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3M0UXwB000806 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:30:34 -0600 Received: from [10.0.1.2] (a80-127-8-141.adsl.xs4all.nl [80.127.8.141]) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3M0UWuO022271 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:30:32 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from pim.rietbroek@xs4all.nl) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed To: Unicode Hebrew List From: Pim Rietbroek Subject: [hebrew] U+05BA absent from Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:30:31 +0200 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by unicode.org id j3M0UXwB000806 X-archive-position: 2951 X-Approved-By: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: pim.rietbroek@xs4all.nl Precedence: bulk X-list: hebrew Dear list, While scanning the Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts for changes I noticed a discrepancy between http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.1.0/#NotableChanges -> "Significant Character Additions" -> "Additions for Biblical Hebrew": "Five new Hebrew characters have been added in Unicode 4.1 for special usage in Biblical Hebrew text: (…) U+05BA HEBREW POINT HOLAM HASER FOR VAV (…)" and http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0590.pdf In the PDF version of the Hebrew block no mention is made of the new code point +05BA. In http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/Unicode-4.1/U41-0590.pdf this code point is also still marked "". [Apologies if the discrepancy has been removed recently: I blame browser caches. ;-) ] As I do not know to whom I should address this I thought it best to advise the List, hoping that the experts will alert the proper authorities. With kind regards, Pim Rietbroek From kenw@sybase.com Fri Apr 22 13:55:04 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list hebrew); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:54:49 -0600 (CST) Received: from fm200.sybase.com (fm200.sybase.com [192.138.151.122]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3MJt3bq007040 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:55:04 -0600 Received: from smtp2.sybase.com (sybgate2.sybase.com [10.22.97.85]) by fm200.sybase.com with ESMTP id j3MJss900873; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie.sybase.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.sybase.com with ESMTP id MAA09993; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (birdie [10.22.85.43]) by birdie.sybase.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id j3MJsse22012; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200504221954.j3MJsse22012@birdie.sybase.com> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:54:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Kenneth Whistler Reply-To: Kenneth Whistler Subject: [hebrew] Re: U+05BA absent from Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts To: pim.rietbroek@xs4all.nl Cc: hebrew@unicode.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-MD5: eT0KFjNcMvt6LkKfYyhVWA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.4.6_06 SunOS 5.8 sun4u sparc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by unicode.org id j3MJt3bq007040 X-archive-position: 2952 X-Approved-By: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: kenw@sybase.com Precedence: bulk X-list: hebrew Pim, It is the other way around. U+05BA is *correctly* absent from the code charts and data files for Unicode 4.1. It is currently under ballot in ISO for Amendment *2* for 10646:2003. The other 4 characters were completed in Amendment *1* for 10646:2003, which has completed its ballotting and corresponds exactly to Unicode 4.1. The problem is a case of "premature documentation", where the text intended for Unicode 5.0 got reused on the page documenting Unicode 4.1, without anyone catching the fact that the mention of U+05BA should have been excised there. An erratum notice will be posted. --Ken > Dear list, > > While scanning the Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts for changes I noticed a > discrepancy between > http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.1.0/#NotableChanges > -> "Significant Character Additions" -> "Additions for Biblical Hebrew": > "Five new Hebrew characters have been added in Unicode 4.1 for special > usage in Biblical Hebrew text: (…) U+05BA HEBREW POINT HOLAM HASER FOR > VAV (…)" > and > http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0590.pdf > > In the PDF version of the Hebrew block no mention is made of the new > code point +05BA. In > http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/Unicode-4.1/U41-0590.pdf > this code point is also still marked "". > > [Apologies if the discrepancy has been removed recently: I blame > browser caches. ;-) ] > > As I do not know to whom I should address this I thought it best to > advise the List, hoping that the experts will alert the proper > authorities. > > With kind regards, > > Pim Rietbroek > > > > From finckea@hotmail.com Sat Apr 23 06:07:10 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list hebrew); Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:35:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from hotmail.com (bay102-f27.bay102.hotmail.com [64.4.61.37]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3NC79M0004673 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 06:07:10 -0600 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 05:07:04 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.61.202 by by102fd.bay102.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 12:07:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.61.202] X-Originating-Email: [finckea@hotmail.com] X-Sender: finckea@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200504221954.j3MJsse22012@birdie.sybase.com> From: "andrew fincke" To: kenw@sybase.com, pim.rietbroek@xs4all.nl Cc: hebrew@unicode.org Subject: [hebrew] Re: U+05BA absent from Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:07:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2005 12:07:04.0627 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6B45030:01C547FC] X-archive-position: 2953 X-Approved-By: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: finckea@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk X-list: hebrew Pim, John et al., Is this the kong-awaited correction of the Windows Times-Roman boo-boo about not allowing cholem without vav under it? If so, how do we get it into our machines? Andy Fincke >From: Kenneth Whistler >Reply-To: Kenneth Whistler >To: pim.rietbroek@xs4all.nl >CC: hebrew@unicode.org >Subject: [hebrew] Re: U+05BA absent from Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:54:54 -0700 (PDT) > >Pim, > >It is the other way around. U+05BA is *correctly* absent from >the code charts and data files for Unicode 4.1. It is currently >under ballot in ISO for Amendment *2* for 10646:2003. The other >4 characters were completed in Amendment *1* for 10646:2003, >which has completed its ballotting and corresponds exactly >to Unicode 4.1. > >The problem is a case of "premature documentation", where the >text intended for Unicode 5.0 got reused on the page >documenting Unicode 4.1, without anyone catching the fact >that the mention of U+05BA should have been excised there. > >An erratum notice will be posted. > >--Ken > > > Dear list, > > > > While scanning the Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts for changes I noticed a > > discrepancy between > > http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.1.0/#NotableChanges > > -> "Significant Character Additions" -> "Additions for Biblical Hebrew": > > "Five new Hebrew characters have been added in Unicode 4.1 for special > > usage in Biblical Hebrew text: (…) U+05BA HEBREW POINT HOLAM HASER FOR > > VAV (…)" > > and > > http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0590.pdf > > > > In the PDF version of the Hebrew block no mention is made of the new > > code point +05BA. In > > http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/Unicode-4.1/U41-0590.pdf > > this code point is also still marked "". > > > > [Apologies if the discrepancy has been removed recently: I blame > > browser caches. ;-) ] > > > > As I do not know to whom I should address this I thought it best to > > advise the List, hoping that the experts will alert the proper > > authorities. > > > > With kind regards, > > > > Pim Rietbroek > > > > > > > > > > > From peterkirk@qaya.org Sat Apr 23 15:27:40 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list hebrew); Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:18:20 -0600 (CST) Received: from pan.hu-pan.com (hu-pan.com [67.15.6.3]) by unicode.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j3NLReTD024949 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:27:40 -0600 Received: from 213-162-124-237.peterk253.adsl.metronet.co.uk ([213.162.124.237] helo=[10.0.0.1]) by pan.hu-pan.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.50) id 1DPSA5-0006WJ-LP; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:27:39 +0100 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.10.2]); Sun, 24 Apr 2005 02:27:50 +0500 Message-ID: <426ABDD5.2080402@qaya.org> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:27:49 +0100 From: Peter Kirk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en, en-us, az, ru, tr, he, el, fr, de To: andrew fincke CC: hebrew@unicode.org Subject: [hebrew] Re: U+05BA absent from Unicode v.4.1 PDF charts References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - pan.hu-pan.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - unicode.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - qaya.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-archive-position: 2954 X-Approved-By: jcowan@reutershealth.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org Errors-to: hebrew-bounce@unicode.org X-original-sender: peterkirk@qaya.org Precedence: bulk X-list: hebrew On 23/04/2005 13:07, andrew fincke wrote: > ... > Is this the kong-awaited correction of the Windows Times-Roman boo-boo > about not allowing cholem without vav under it? ... No. MS could have corrected that long ago, indeed they did in their David font, and it is a mystery why they have never done so in Times New Roman and their other core fonts. This HOLAM HASER FOR VAV is about something quite different, and I don't want to spoil my weekend explaining it again and dragging up old arguments. But you could see http://www.qaya.org/academic/hebrew/Holam3.html and other documents referenced there. -- Peter Kirk peter@qaya.org (personal) peterkirk@qaya.org (work) http://www.qaya.org/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005