Yerushala(y)im - or Biblical Hebrew (was Major Defect in Combining Classes of Tibetan Vowels)

From: Jony Rosenne (rosennej@qsm.co.il)
Date: Fri Jun 27 2003 - 03:39:16 EDT

  • Next message: John Hudson: "Re: Biblical Hebrew"

    It is not a problem, this is how it should be.

    Jony

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: unicode-bounce@unicode.org
    > [mailto:unicode-bounce@unicode.org] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
    > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 11:46 PM
    > To: Kenneth Whistler; Peter_Constable@sil.org
    > Cc: unicode@unicode.org; kenw@sybase.com
    > Subject: Re: Biblical Hebrew (Was: Major Defect in Combining
    > Classes of Tibetan Vowels)
    >
    >
    > Another consequence is that it separates the sequence into
    > two combining sequences, not one. Don't know if this is a
    > serious problem, especially since we are concerned with a
    > limited domain with non-modern usage, but I wanted to mention it.
    >
    > Mark
    > __________________________________
    > http://www.macchiato.com
    > ► “Eppur si muove” ◄
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Kenneth Whistler" <kenw@sybase.com>
    > To: <Peter_Constable@sil.org>
    > Cc: <unicode@unicode.org>; <kenw@sybase.com>
    > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 13:41
    > Subject: Re: Biblical Hebrew (Was: Major Defect in Combining
    > Classes of Tibetan Vowels)
    >
    >
    > > Peter replied to Karljürgen:
    > >
    > > > Karljürgen Feuerherm wrote on 06/25/2003 08:31:41 PM:
    > > >
    > > > > I was going to suggest something very similar, a
    > ZW-pseudo-consonant of
    > > > some
    > > > > kind, which would force each vowel to be associated with one
    > consonant.
    > > >
    > > > An invisible *consonant* doesn't make sense because the problem
    > involves
    > > > more than just multiple written vowels on one consonant;
    > >
    > > I agree that we don't want to go inventing invisible consonants for
    > > this.
    > >
    > > BTW, there's already an invisible vowel (in fact a pair of
    > them) that
    > > is unwanted by the stakeholders of the script it was originally
    > > invented for:
    > >
    > > U+17B4 KHMER VOWEL INHERENT AQ
    > >
    > > This is also (cc=0), so would serve to block canonical
    > reordering if
    > > placed between two Hebrew vowel points. But I'm sure that if Peter
    > > thought the suggestion of the ZWJ for this was a "groanable
    > kludge",
    > > Biblical Hebraicists would probably not take lightly to the
    > > importation of an invisible Khmer character into their text
    > > representations. ;-)
    > >
    > > > in fact, that is
    > > > a small portion of the general problem. If we want such a
    > character, it
    > > > would notionally be a zero-width-canonical-ordering-inhibiter, and
    > nothing
    > > > more.
    > >
    > > The fact is that any of the zero-width format controls has the
    > > side-effect of inhibiting (or rather interrupting) canonical
    > reordering
    > > if inserted in the middle of a target sequence, because of
    > their own
    > > class (cc=0).
    > >
    > > I'm not particularly campaigning for ZWJ, by the way. ZWNJ or even
    > > U+FEFF ZWNBSP would accomplish the same. I just suggested ZWJ
    > because
    > > it seemed in the ballpark. ZWNBSP would likely have fewer possible
    > > other consequences, since notionally it means just "don't break
    > here",
    > > which you wouldn't do in the middle of a Hebrew combining character
    > > sequence, anyway.
    > >
    > > > And I don't particular want to think about what happens when
    > people start
    > > > sticking this thing into sequences other than Biblical
    > Hebrew ("in
    > > > unicode, any sequence is legal").
    > >
    > > But don't forget that these cc=0 zero width format controls already
    > > can be stuck into sequences other than Biblical Hebrew. In some
    > > instances they have defined semantics there (as for Arabic
    > and Indic
    > > scripts), but in all cases they would *already* have the effect of
    > > interrupting canonical reordering of combining character
    > sequences if
    > > inserted there.
    > >
    > > --Ken
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >



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