Re: Uppercase ß is coming? (U+1E9E)

From: John Hudson (
Date: Tue May 08 2007 - 14:37:53 CDT

  • Next message: John Hudson: "Re: Uppercase ß is coming? (U+1E9E)"

    Michael Everson wrote:

    >> You've taken a romantic type with a strong vertical axis and an
    >> expansion based stroke pattern and introduced a letter with a very
    >> dominant translation based stroke.

    > "Translation"-based stroke?

    In which the stroke contrast pattern is determined by the direction of the stroke, i.e.
    typical of a broadnib writing instrument, in this case differentiated from an expansion
    pattern based upon pressure, i.e. typical of a splitnib writing instrument. See Noordzij
    _The Stroke_.

    > OK, see a new image at

    > The first of the capitals here is the flung-together one. The second and
    > third follow your Trajan example, and are made of capital U and S, the
    > first of which with a J-finial. The fourth is the same as the same as
    > the third except that the distance between the vertical and the S is the
    > same as in the sequence IS. The last derives from F and S.

    I found in the Trajan experiment that the S-curve portion has to be narrower than the
    actual S, and getting the balance right is very tricky. The top transition probably needs
    less curve in it.

    > My goal is to make something "vanilla" in Times which will guide less
    > erudite font designers than you to make something that doesn't suck.
    > That is something that the code charts do.

    In that case, I would use the Times example shown in this example:

    This form is succeeding much more in both looking like an uppercase letter and providing a
    systematic model from which a wide range of different typefaces can benefit. The kind of
    forms you and I are experimenting with probably need a lot more careful fiddling and
    refinement to make work well. The arch+yogh approach is going to cause fewer problems for
    most type designers looking to quickly add support for this character to multiple fonts.

    [During the euro symbol update, Akira Kobayashi at Linotype developed a 'norm' for
    creating the euro glyph: a set of rules that would produce an acceptable form in almost
    every style of typeface in their extensive library. Something similar would be of value
    for the uppercase eszett. There will, of course, be typefaces that inspire different
    approaches, but having a system that can be applied in most cases will be very handy.]

    John Hudson

    Tiro Typeworks
    Gulf Islands, BC
    We say our understanding measures how things are,
    and likewise our perception, since that is how we
    find our way around, but in fact these do not measure.
    They are measured.   -- Aristotle, Metaphysics

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