Preliminary minutes for INCITS/L2 meeting #193
Pleasanton, 25-28 August 2003


Meeting location:  Pleasanton, CA.  Hosted by PeopleSoft


1                   Opening of L2 meeting - remarks from the chair

2                   Joint meeting with UTC

3                   Administrative agenda

3.1. Attendance and membership

3.1.1. Membership list

Apple, HP, IBM, MS, Oracle, Peoplesoft, RLG, Sun, Sybase, Unicode (10)

3.1.2. Members in jeopardy

3.1.3. Attendance

HP, IBM, MS, Oracle, Peoplesoft, RLG, Sun, Sybase, Unicode (9)

3.2  Officers for L2

3.3. Approval of meeting minutes from June 2003 [L2/03-211]

3.4. Action items follow-up [SD-2]

3.5. Registration of new documents and assignment to the agenda

See L2/SD-3 for current document register

3.6. Approval of agenda [L2/03-300]

3.7. Upcoming meetings

UTC 97/L2 194—November 4-7, 2003, Baltimore, host JHU

UTC 98/L2 195—February 2-5, 2004, Bay Area, host Microsoft

UTC 99/L2 196—June 15-18, 2004, Toronto, host IBM

UTC 100/L2 197—August 17-20, 2004, Redmond, host Microsoft

4                   Reports and liaisons

4.1. SC22/WG20

4.1.1.  WG20 Strategy

4.1.2.  ISO/IEC FCD 15897

4.2. SC22

4.2.1.  Plenary preparation

4.2.2.  SC22 reballot on 14651

4.3. SC2/WG2

4.4. SC2/WG3


5                   Ballots

5.1.  New ballots to vote:


Doc. #





L2/03-243, L2/03-244

Request for Comments - Application for Registration No. 232, Turkmen character set for 8-bit codes

SC2  N3682


No vote needed: RFC only

L2/03-205, L2/03-250






FCD Ballot for the revision of ISO/IEC 15897:1999 - Procedure for the Registration of Cultural Elements

SC22 N3586


9:0:0:1 to disapprove with comments


5.2.  Ballot reports: none

5.3.  Letter ballot reports: none


6                   Voting on joint UTC/L2 meeting recommendations [L2/03-241]


7                   Delegates to SC2 and SC22/WG20 meetings

7.1.  SC22 plenary in Oslo, Norway, 15-19 September 2003

Delegates: Ksar

7.2.  SC22/WG20 in Mountain View, 15-17 October 2003

Delegates: Davis, Moore, Aliprand, Ksar, O’Donnell, Wissink

7.3.  SC2/WG2 in Mountain View, 20-23 October 2003

Delegates: Whistler, Davis, Aliprand, Moore, McGowan, Kaplan, Goldsmith, Suignard, Freytag, Wissink, Hiura


8                   Other

8.1.  ISO royalties for 639, etc.  [L2/03-272]

L2 took the following position (reference: INCITS document 031008):


ResolvedWith reference to the proposal by ISO’s CPSG to charge fees for the use of ISO codes: ISO infrastructure standards such as 3166, 4217 and 639 MUST be royalty free.  The negative consequences of charging royalties would be severe, for example:

1.        Disincentive for companies to contribute to ISO standards development;

2.        Strong incentive to avoid using or referencing ISO standards by software developers or commercial resellers;

3.        It would promote the development and use of alternative, royalty-free standards;

4.        Disincentive for organizations which have been harmonizing their alternative standards with ISO standards.

Moreover, many of these ISO standards are themselves based on contributions from other sources or not distinguishable from pre-existing data, and charging royalties for the use of this data may expose ISO itself to debates over intellectual property rights and financial liability.  Even the discussion of this issue casts a cloud over future use of ISO standards in the IT environment. 


8.2.  Keown letter to ANSI [L2/03-261]

8.3.  ISO 3166 changing CS code


L2 took the following position:


ResolvedThe recent decision by the Maintenance Agency for ISO 3166 to reassign the code “CS” (formerly Czechoslovakia) to Serbia and Montenegro causes severe problems.


Country codes are a fundamental component of modern computing infrastructure (major operating systems, business applications, postal services, security and identity systems, to name a few) and their stability must be guaranteed.  Data that is identified by these codes has a shelf life of decades, not five years.


The corrective actions to take include:

1.        Rescind the reassignment of CS to Serbia and Montenegro at the earliest opportunity available, to minimize the impact;

2.        Change the policy to allow the reuse of codes only after a very long period of time, such as one hundred years.


9                   Adjournment