Re: CJK fonts

From: Andrew C. West (
Date: Fri Dec 13 2002 - 08:16:06 EST

  • Next message: Andrew C. West: "Precomposed Tibetan"

    On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 01:33:08 -0800 (PST), Thomas Chan wrote:

    > I can't imagine where the yi4 reading comes from, although I note
    > that U+3CBC, which looks somewhat similar to U+6C49, is given both yi4 and
    > cha4 readings (3: 1549).

    I was thinking along the same lines. The Kangxi Zidian gives U+3CBC a reading of
    YI4 (as does the Unihan database - the CHA4 reading seems to be as a variant
    form of U+6C4A). I suspect that either U+6C49 is a variant form of U+3CBC, or
    someone has taken it to be so. The element CHA3 U+53C9 is often written with an
    open top (like U+4E49), and so it may be that the element U+4E42 seen in U+3CBC
    may sometimes be written with a closed top like the character YOU4 (U+53C8), in
    which case U+6C49 would naturally be a variant form of U+3CBC ... I'm on very
    shaky ground by now, as this pure speculation, and I've got no sources to back
    me up. At any rate, what I think is important is that we do not assume that YI4
    is wrong and through it out just because none of us recognise the reading ...
    though I guess if it is that obscure, it really hasn't got a place in the Unihan

    > > U+5481 kMandarin GEM4 - GEM4 is Cantonese pinyin (it is a common Cantonese
    > > ideograph) - I don't think this ideograph has a Mandarin reading ... but if
    > > did it would presumably be GAN4 ... which is the reading I give it in
    > The _Hanyu Da Zidian_ (1: 598) has han2 'breast; milk', xian2 'to hold in
    > the mouth', and gan4 'so (quantity)' for readings. But I don't think
    > "gem4" is an error--the 1979 PRC _Ci Hai_ has gem4 'so (quantity)' and
    > han1 'so (quantity)' for readings, where gem4 corresponds to the same
    > vocabulary item as gan4 in the former dictionary. (The han1 reading is
    > not Cantonese usage of the character, but Hunanese, despite the identical
    > meaning.) It's rare, but sometimes there are unusual Mandarin syllables
    > like "gem4" given in dictionaries.

    Agreed that oddities like gem4 might slip into a dictionary, but it still is not
    a *Mandarin* syllable. Strangely, U+5481 wasn't in Hanyu Da Cidian, but it was
    in a PRC Cantonese dictionary I have (Guangzhou Hua Zidian or something like
    that), where it was given a Cantonese pinyin reading of GEM (can't remember the
    tone), but no Mandarin reading. GEM is the Cantonese reading, but no Mandarin
    speaker is going pronounce it with the final M ... it would have to be
    Mandarinised to GAN4. If we accept GEM4 as a Mandarin reading we might as well
    accept GOK (or something like that) as an alternate Mandarin reading for U+570B
    ! At any rate, whatever Unicode decides, I for one am not going to put GEM in my
    list of Mandarin pinyin syllables in BabelMap.

    > > U+6F71 kMandarin YIE - this should be YI1
    > _Hanyu Da Zidian_ (3: 1736) says ye1 here, but I bet you have a source
    > that backs yi1 just as well...

    You've sown a seed of doubt in my mind now. I think I got the reading from the
    Kangxi Zidian again, but now that I think back YE1 does ring a bell ... I'll
    check again.

    BTW, I checked my notes last night, and the couple of kRSUnicode errors I
    noticed were in CJK-A not CJK-B like I said yesterday :

    U+48F1 kRSUnicode 168.5 - should be 164.5
    U+4CED kRSUnicode 199.9 - should be 196.9


    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Dec 13 2002 - 09:07:06 EST