Re: U+0185 in Zhuang and Azeri (was Re: unicode Digest V4 #3)

From: Peter Kirk (
Date: Mon Jan 05 2004 - 17:35:35 EST

  • Next message: Michael Everson: "Re: U+0185 in Zhuang and Azeri (was Re: unicode Digest V4 #3)"

    On 05/01/2004 14:12, wrote:

    >----- Original Message -----
    >From: "Peter Kirk" <>
    >To: "Philippe Verdy" <>
    >Cc: "Unicode Mailing List" <>
    >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:16 AM
    >Subject: Re: unicode Digest V4 #3
    >Peter Kirk wrote,
    >>I note an incorrect glyph for U+0185 in Code2000 and in Arial Unicode
    >>MS; this looks like b with no serif at the bottom but should be much
    >>shorter, like ь, the Cyrillic soft sign. The Arial Unicode MS glyph for
    >>U+04BB is also incorrect - it should look identical to Latin h - but
    >>this problem is well known.
    >No comment on U+04BB. With regards to U+0185, could it be
    >said that the informative glyph in TUS 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 is a bit
    >misleading, or does that glyph represent a variance from the
    >text(s) with which you're familiar?
    Yes, you are right, and using a very British hyperbole. The TUS 4.0
    glyph is quite simply incorrect. That is, it is incorrect for the
    Azerbaijani, Khakass and Nogai letter, and it does not make a proper
    distinction from the otherwise almost identical "b". The glyph should
    have the same height as most lower case letters. See,,

    >Magnify U0180.pdf to 400% and put the row 0185 - 0195 - 01A5
    >towards the top of the screen so that the top of U+0185 touches
    >the screen area border. Note that the top of U+0185 aligns with
    >the top of U+0195, suggesting that these glyphs would have the
    >same height.
    >In THE LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD by Kenneth Katzner (1975),
    >the example for Chuang seems to show a glyph covering U+0185
    >as you describe. (page 212)
    >This page uses a scan from THE LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD
    >as its Chuang example:
    In this Chuang text, the glyph is much shorter than that of "b" and so
    adequately distinguished, although still slightly higher than most lower
    case letters.

    I conclude that the same glyph can be used for Chuang and Azerbaijani,
    but it needs to be significantly shorter than the Unicode reference glyph.

    Peter Kirk (personal) (work)

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