RE: New property for reordrant dependent vowels reordering?

From: Peter Constable (
Date: Sun Sep 04 2005 - 10:41:20 CDT

  • Next message: Eric Muller: "Re: New property for reordrant dependent vowels reordering?"

    > From: []
    > Behalf Of Richard Wordingham

    > (1) With the Mangal font, TTA + VIRAMA + TTHA + I should be two
    > orthographic
    > syllables because of the font's conjunct repertoire, i.e. as the
    > must
    > be visible, the vowel should attach to the TTHA. This special case
    > (obvious
    > to a human)

    Is *not* so obvious to a human. In fact, there are two writing
    conventions that you will find in use in the event of a consonant
    cluster where C1 has no half form and a conjunct ligature is not used.
    One is to place I before the killed consonant, the other placing the I
    after the killed consonant / before the live consonant.

    In Windows Vista, Uniscribe is being updated to support either
    convention. The font implementation will determine which is used by
    default. One can always force the I to go after the killed consonant by
    inserting ZWNJ; e.g., < TTA, VIRAMA, ZWNJ, TTHA, I >.

    (Actually, TTA-TTHA isn't the best example since glyphs for these
    conjunct forms have been added to Mangal -- that they were missing was
    an oversight. A better example would be some other combination for which
    there is no conjunct and C1 has no half form, such as

    > Dai Lanna

    This is off the topic of the thread: "Dai Lanna" is not really an
    appropriate designation. "Dai" is the Pinyin representation of "Tai",
    the latter being used by linguists outside of China. "Lanna" is not
    particularly referred to within China; they would be more likely to
    refer to the old written form for the language in China that uses it,
    which they generally refer to as "Xishuangbanna Dai" (known to linguists
    outside China as "Tai Lue").

    "Lanna" *is* the best choice for referring to the script in question as
    it came into being and was used in the Kingdom of Lanna, which had its
    capitol in northern Thailand. If you want to add a qualifier, "Lanna
    Tai" might be acceptable, though that would more likely be understood as
    referring to the Northern Thai language (indigenous name "kam meuang").
    In Thai and Northern Thai, "tua Lanna" or "aksorn Lanna" are used,
    meaning 'Lanna letters'.

    Peter Constable

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