From: Kent Karlsson (kent.karlsson14@comhem.se)
Date: Sun Sep 04 2005 - 16:30:54 CDT
Richard Wordingham wrote:
>>> TTA and TTHA and no half-form for TTA, this sequence is two
>>> orthographic
>>> syllables - TTA + VIRAMA and TTHA + I.
>> Then there are two orthographic syllables here, per definition.
Oops, my bad. There is just one orthographic syllable, the virama
ties the consonants together (regardless of whether they form a
conjunct/ligature or not). (Sorry for not noticing before.)
An orthographic syllable here is (simplified):
<consonant, {combining marks, at least one of which is a virama}>*
<consonant, {maybe combining marks, no virama}>
Conjuncts are just ligatures of <consonant, virama, consonant> and
are indeed mostly optional (though some are very common) and certainly
font dependent (and conjuncts may in turn ligate with a following
dependent vowel).
> For Brahmi, Khmer and Dai Lanna, the conjuncts are generally not
ligated.
You mean that the consonants in the orthographic syllables do not
generally form conjuncts/ligatures...
...
> There are a few specific issues, but they go away if one is allowed to
substitute
> a superscript for a subscript and vice versa. Automating their
> placement would be more complicated - the ascender of a subscript
would have
> to be moved away from the superscript of the base consonant.
I don't think anyone wants to complicate rendering (placement,
"reaching" ligatures; as opposed to just reordering pre-vowels)
for this, unless it can be shown to be quite often used, and is
deemed to be 'plain text'.
Peter Constable wrote:
> Is *not* so obvious to a human. In fact, there are two writing
> conventions that you will find in use in the event of a consonant
> cluster where C1 has no half form and a conjunct ligature is not used.
> One is to place I before the killed consonant, the other placing the I
> after the killed consonant / before the live consonant.
That is, as Eric Muller wrote, then two *orthographic* conventions.
These must be *reliably* be distinguished in the underlying text.
It must NOT be font dependent (for properly constructed fonts).
> In Windows Vista, Uniscribe is being updated to support either
> convention. The font implementation will determine which is used by
> default. One can always force the I to go after the killed
> consonant by
> inserting ZWNJ; e.g., < TTA, VIRAMA, ZWNJ, TTHA, I >.
I don't think ZWNJ (in that position) is the appropriate way to
distinguish these two orthographic conventions, since that is
used for another distinction. But a ZWJ just before the dependent
vowel *may* be a possible way to distinguish these two orthographic
conventions (font independently!); e.g.:
< TTA, VIRAMA, ZWNJ, TTHA, I > -- I to the extreme left, with visible
virama
< TTA, VIRAMA, TTHA, I > -- I to the extreme left, using conjunct (if in
font)
< TTA, VIRAMA, ZWNJ, TTHA, ZWJ, I > -- I before TTHA, with visible
virama
< TTA, VIRAMA, TTHA, ZWJ, I > -- I before TTHA, with visible virama
/kent k
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