Re: [indic] Re: Viramas

From: Gautam Sengupta (gsghyd@yahoo.com)
Date: Sat Apr 22 2006 - 12:08:58 CST

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    Dear Dr. Ganesan,

    > The ad hoc use of ZWJs in non-Devanagari scripts creates lot
    > of confusion.

    I fully support and endorse this view. In fact it creates a lot of
    problems in Devangari as well, where it is used to encode semantic
    differences as well as glyph variations. The manner in which PR-37
    was resolved by the UTC was most unfortunate. Mercifully Bangla no
    longer needs to encode Khanda-Ta with ta|virama|zwj. Given that, I
    don't see why Malayalam chillus should be encoded with ZWJ either.
    Does anybody understand the logic behind this dispensaton? I
    certainly don't.

    Best
    Gautam Sengupta

    --- "N. Ganesan" <naa.ganesan@gmail.com> wrote:

    > On 4/18/06, Nagarjuna Venna <vnagarjuna@gmail.com> wrote:
    > > Here is a small analysis and a plausible solution for Telugu
    > script.
    > >
    > > Virama is basically used in two places in the current standard
    > for Telugu:
    > >
    > > 1. In a sequence of the form <C1, virama, C2> to generate
    > conjuncts. The
    > > only thing that the virama is doing here is to tell the renderer
    > to generate
    > > the vattu from of the consonant C2. Hence, I referred to it as an
    > escape
    > > character.
    > >
    > > 2. In a sequence of the form <C1, virama, ZWNJ>, IMHO, this is a
    > farce
    > > because you have one escape character (ZWNJ) overriding the
    > behavior of
    > > another escape character.
    > >
    > > If you consider a conjunct like 'rju' in arjuna, linguistic
    > analysis would
    > > probably tell you that this syllable is made of the sequence
    > <Consonant RA,
    > > virama, Consonant JA, Vowel U>. Analyzing Telugu script will tell
    > you that
    > > it is wirtten using the sequence <Consonant RA, Vattu JA, Vowel
    > sign U>. As
    > > you can see, the model in ISCII is a hybrid - <Consonant RA,
    > virama,
    > > Consonant JA, Vowel Sign U>.
    > >
    > > A plausible solution for Telugu like scripts for the above two
    > scenarios is:
    > >
    > > 1. Encode conjuncts as in the written form <C1, V1>. In the
    > general case,
    > > <C1, V1, V2,.....VS1> where the V are vattulu and VS is the Vowel
    > sign.
    > > 2. Encode suppression of inherent vowel (pollu in Telugu) as <C1,
    > virama>.
    > >
    > > It is some times stated that the vattu form of RA, for example,
    > is simply a
    > > glyph of variation of consonat RA. I believe this claim is bogus
    > because
    > > vattulu are to consonants what vowel signs are to vowels -
    > secondary forms
    > > of the basic alphabet that are integral to the writing system.
    > (If I were
    > > encoding glyph variations of vattu form of RA, I would be
    > encoding one code
    > > point for the semi-circle glyph, one for the L shaped glyph that
    > binds to
    > > the left and one more for the mirror form that binds to the
    > right.)
    > >
    > > A scheme like this would work very well for Kannada and most
    > likely
    > > Malayalam too. Devanagari is a different story because Devanagari
    > uses a
    > > very different writing system.
    > >
    >
    > The ad hoc use of ZWJs in non-Devanagari scripts creates lot
    > of confusion. In fact, cillus of Malayalam are not half-forms
    > at all, and to use ZWJs on them, they are claimed so (eg., pr-37).
    >
    > It is possible that leaving the functionality of ZWJ to Devanagari,
    > a C2-conjoining script joiner (let us call it VJ, vattu jr.) will
    > help
    > issues related to Telugu, Kannada, Oriya. It will help
    > Malayalam too, and also (yet to be encoded) Tamil Grantha
    > script used by Tamils to write Sanskrit. Perhaps parts
    > of Burmese script issues. It may be useful to study
    > Tibetan script consonat joiner mechanisms for a solution
    > to C2-conjoining scripts of India - Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam,
    > Tamil Grantha, Oriya as ultimately their origins go to
    > Pallavan era.
    >
    > Thanks
    > N. Ganesan
    >
    > > Thanks,
    > > nagarjuna
    > >
    >
    >
    >

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