Re: CLDR Usage of Gregorian Calendar Era Terms: BC and AD -- Can we please have "CE" and "BCE" ?

From: Javier SOLA (
Date: Wed Dec 19 2007 - 22:03:38 CST

  • Next message: John Hudson: "Re: CLDR Usage of Gregorian Calendar Era Terms: BC and AD -- Can we please have "CE" and "BCE" ?"

    Interesting paradigm... to take the name of the God from the Gregorian
    Calendar, but not the name of his representative Pope Gregory...



    Ed Trager wrote
    > I forgot to add that the default should be CE/BCE precisely because it
    > is religiously neutral as the article points
    > out.
    > AD/BC may still enjoy greater usage since in the end users are free to
    > do whatever they want with CLDR, but if CE/BCE became the default, at
    > least no one could accuse CLDR of having a hidden agenda or Western
    > imperialist tendancy ...
    > - Ed Trager
    > On Dec 19, 2007 9:15 PM, Ed Trager <> wrote:
    >> Am 19.12.2007 um 19:58 schrieb John Hudson:
    >>>> While I agree that BCE and CE should be *added* to CLDR, I don't agree
    >>>> that BC and AD are best removed, because they are the preferred terms
    >>>> of a very significant user community. CLDR should reflect the usage,
    >>>> and that includes both BC/AD and BCE/CE.
    >>> I join this statement.
    >>> Whatever your beliefs are, one cannot deny the simple fact that the
    >>> Gregorian calender is of christian origin. I am far from being a
    >>> christian propagandist, but I don't see any point in making attempts
    >>> for ideological cleansing of language, as was common practice under the
    >>> communist dictatorship of dubious and questionable memory (M. Everson
    >>> quite reasonably pointed at that).
    >> I don't think anyone has the intention of denying the Christian origin
    >> of the Gregorian calendar. Nor do I believe there is an attempt at
    >> ideological cleansing. The interest in adding CE/BCE as an alternate
    >> pair for era notation is rather based on acknowledgment of a current
    >> socio-linguistic phenomenon: the use of CE/BCE has already gained wide
    >> acceptance in the United States, among scholars world-wide, and
    >> apparently also in English-speaking Canada.
    >> The article from mentioned earlier in this
    >> thread ( provides fairly
    >> good evidence that certain groups of people who are actually quite
    >> interested in religion and religious tolerance are those who are
    >> promoting this usage the most. I for one find it interesting that it
    >> is --perhaps-- not so much the secular humanists who want to use these
    >> terms as those who believe deeply in religion and see these terms as a
    >> way to better facilitate dialog across differing religious communities
    >> in the inter-connected modern world. As the aforementioned article
    >> points out:
    >> "The world is becoming more integrated financially, politically,
    >> socially and religiously. A universal calendar notation is needed.
    >> Recall that for every Christian there are about two non-Christians
    >> worldwide. References to Christ and to the Judeo-Christian God offend
    >> many of the latter. A universal notation needs to be religiously
    >> neutral in order to be generally accepted. CE and BCE meet these
    >> requirements."
    >> Happy holidays to all -- Ed Trager
    >>> Merry christmas (or should I more correctly say: 'merry x-y-z-mas –? )
    >>> A:S

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