RE: which scripts are written vertically

From: Phillips, Addison (addison@lab126.com)
Date: Mon May 16 2011 - 16:34:23 CDT

  • Next message: fantasai: "Re: which scripts are written vertically"

    Ken said (in part):

    > And even in Japan, the online editions of newspapers and nearly
    > anything else would almost universally be laid out horizontally, because it is just
    > so much easier to do.

    It would be more accurate to say "because vertical rendering isn't supported". Note that fantasai is one of the editors of CSS3 Writing-Modes [1], which aims to correct that. It remains to be seen what layout is preferred by newpapers (etc.) when vertical presentation is a readily available option. I don't dispute that horizontal layout will probably remain "easier" to do, even in that case. Just that you can't really measure the preference today, given that it's nearly impossible.

    Addison

    [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-writing-modes/

    Addison Phillips
    Globalization Architect (Lab126)
    Chair (W3C I18N WG)

    Internationalization is not a feature.
    It is an architecture.

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: unicode-bounce@unicode.org [mailto:unicode-bounce@unicode.org] On
    > Behalf Of Ken Whistler
    > Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 2:20 PM
    > To: fantasai
    > Cc: unicode@unicode.org
    > Subject: Re: which scripts are written vertically
    >
    > On 5/12/2011 2:48 PM, fantasai wrote:
    > > The interpretation of the question that yields your answer of "only
    > > Mongolian and Phags Pa is
    > > "Which scripts should only be written vertically?"
    >
    > Actually, what Andrew said was:
    >
    > scripts that should preferably be rendered in a vertical orientation
    >
    >
    > Mongolian can be, and in some sense "should be" rendered horizontally, when
    > it is mixed inline with text, such as Chinese, laid out left-to-right. But the
    > preferred direction for layout of Mongolian by itself (or as the predominant
    > component of extended
    > text) is clearly top-to-bottom.
    >
    > >
    > > The interpretation of the question I'm interested in is
    > > "Which scripts are written vertically in normal (rather than
    > > exceptional) use?"
    >
    > And this depends somewhat on the definition of "normal" and the context of
    > layout.
    >
    > East Asian typography for the 19th century and earlier clearly treated top-to-
    > bottom (and lines from left-to-right) as the normal layout convention for
    > extended text. And which that entire typographic tradition in East Asia, a
    > significant number of other siniform or related scripts could be said to have
    > shared that convention.
    >
    > But both ordinary book publishing (which had to cope with large amounts of
    > interspersed Roman material, Western digits, and other material not so
    > amenable to vertical layout) and then of course digital typography and
    > computers in the latter part of the 20th century, have changed that. Now I
    > would say that the "normal"
    > layout for all modern East Asian scripts is left-to-right.
    >
    > One of the main classes of holdout consists of Japanese newspapers in their
    > printed editions, which still favor the old conventions. As do small-form-factor
    > Japanese popular novels, and many magazines.
    > The corresponding content in China has mostly switched over to horizontal
    > layout. And even in Japan, the online editions of newspapers and nearly
    > anything else would almost universally be laid out horizontally, because it is just
    > so much easier to do.
    >
    > --Ken
    >



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