Re: Latvian and Marshallese Ad Hoc Report (cedilla and comma below)

From: Michael Everson <>
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 10:10:38 +0100

On 5 Jul 2013, at 08:04, Denis Jacquerye <> wrote:

>> The problem is in pretending that a cedilla and a comma below are equivalent because in some script fonts in France or Turkey routinely write some sort of undifferentiated tick for ç. :-)
> Sure they are not equivalent, but stop pretending it is only in some script fonts, the page has plenty of examples where it is not in script fonts. In some languages the cedilla can have a shape similar to that of a comma, it's a fact.

Yes, well, if there are non-script fonts which have this feature, it nevertheless derived from handwriting. Would any French primer for young children routinely use a full-formed C WITH COMMA BELOW C̦ c̦ regularly throughout? No. Would readers of Le Monde notice if all the fonts one day shifted to C̦ c̦? Of course they would -- and I'd wager €100 they would protest, and loudly.

> Any native speaker will tell you the comma-like form and others are acceptable.

Not by any means in all contexts. In genuine taste-tests, Ç ç would be universally selected as the "more correct" form by French users. C̦ c̦ would not be.

> Just look at or, both very popular newspapers use webfonts with non classic cedilla (Le Monde uses TheMix —even in print it uses TheAntiqua with their comma-like cedilla—

Well, *display fonts* are not the same as body text. Interestingly, TheMix distinguishes its cedilla from its true comma below be sloping the former somewhat noticeably; compare ş ţ with ș ț. And they get it wrong, too, because the shape for the Latvian letters is the sloped one and it should not be.

> and Zaman uses a custom font with an attached tick-like cedilla). This is not the majority but it is frequent enough.

That tick is certainly not a Romanian comma below; it is fused with the letter. And again, it is a specialty *display font*.

I fought this battle back when I supported the Romanian disunification of their letters from the Turkish ones. We're just finishing the job now, as far as I can see.

Michael Everson *
Received on Fri Jul 05 2013 - 04:13:02 CDT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0 : Fri Jul 05 2013 - 04:13:03 CDT