Re: [hebrew] Re: Ancient Northwest Semitic Script (was Re: why Aramaicnow)

From: D. Starner (shalesller@writeme.com)
Date: Sun Dec 28 2003 - 23:47:31 EST

  • Next message: Patrick Andries: "Re: [hebrew] Re: Ancient Northwest Semitic Script (was Re: why Aramaicnow)"

    > As to harm, where's the harm in encoding Japanese kanzi separately, or
    > Latin uncial, or a complete set of small capitals as a third case?
    > Where's the harm in encoding Latin Renaissance scripts separately?

    Spell checking, for one. Should you use T-cedilla or T-comma for Romanian?
    What if your keyboard emits one and your spellchecker accepts the other?
    (I guess T-comma is the correct answer, but there's a lot of Latin-2
    data and old keyboards running around that use T-cedilla.) An Irish
    spellchecker should work whether you use unical or antigua fonts.

    Japanese kanzi is a slightly different matter, but the seperate encoding
    of over ten thousand characters is a problem in itself.

    > But should a difference in appearance count in a decision to code
    > separately within Unicode when *every* other feature of two "scripts" is
    > identical, including origin?

    Intra-script, a difference in appearance has call for seperate codings.
    Inter-script, if the appearance is dissimilar enough to be a bar to
    reading, and there's a disjoint population of users (so that one is
    not a handwriting or cipher variant of another), there is reason to
    encode a seperate script.
     
    > Emerson's division
    > would suggest four different scripts ought to be used for coding the
    > same texts with the same logical characters with the same names,

    Yes. Look at Serbo-Croat; there are the same texts with the same
    logical characters, one in Latin and one in Cyrillic. I'd be
    surprised to find that the only case; I would assume some of the
    Turkic languages that switched from Cyrillic to Latin did so by
    changing glyphs instead of any deeper script features.

    Indeed, by the same argument, we could encode a lot of scripts
    together. ISCII did it for Indic scripts. I'm sure we could do
    some serious merging among syllabic scripts - 12A8(ከ) is the same
    as 13A7(Ꭷ) and 1472(ᑲ) with different glyphs - and among alphabetic
    scripts, and even in alphabetic scripts - I mean, 015D(ŝ) is
    basically the same as 015F(ş) and 0283(ʃ), aren't they?

    (One just-for-fun idea that's been bouncing around in my head is
    a universal character set that encodes something closer to the
    underlying phonemic characters and applies orthography selectors.
    English, unfortunately, moves from a language that can be supported
    on the most ancient bitty-box to a language that takes serious
    work to get right under this system.)

    > There may also be some thinking of HTML/XML/XHTML web display of
    > characters where forcing of font is not reliable. One would not want a
    > discussion of ancient Phoenician characters to display modern Hebrew
    > forms! But this same problem currently applies to runes, medieval Latin
    > characters, Han characters and so forth. One shouldn't let the current
    > shortcomings of one display method among many dictate Unicode encodings.

    One display method? Of the common document types:

    PDF and Postscript embed fonts and don't have this problem, but aren't
    editable.

    A Word document doesn't embed fonts (usually?), and neither do OpenOffice,
    RTF, HTML, XML, and most other word-processing formats or data
    exchange formats. So font choice is not reliable in these formats.

    A plain text document can't embed fonts or even programmatically suggest
    a font.

    As for Phoenician, perhaps a scholar may be happy with it as a font variant
    of Hebrew, but I don't see why it's not equally a font variant of Greek. No
    non-scholarly user (and Phoenician may well have a few) will understand why
    Phoenician is considered Hebrew, because they don't look alike.

    -- 
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