Re: Corrections to Glagolitic

From: Michael Everson (
Date: Sat May 14 2005 - 11:17:15 CDT

  • Next message: Michael Everson: "Re: Corrections to Glagolitic"

    At 16:47 -0700 2005-05-13, Patrick Andries wrote:

    >>>3. So-called "Spidery Ha" is called Ho'lmo'
    >>Western scholars call it Spidery Ha, but we
    >>would be interested in seeing evidence for a
    >>more specific name.
    >Interesting this Western.

    Is it?

    >Should there be a Russian CLDR name list for the
    >primary users who know these characters by other
    >names ?

    Certainly Russians and Serbians may prefer the
    names in Cyrillic. Certainly there are
    differences in the Russian and the Balkan names.

    >I admit my ignorance of Glagolitic but looking
    >at the Unicode 4.1 chart and the proposal, I had
    >a few Beotian questions.

    Questions "of or relating to ancient Boeotia or
    its people or to the dialect spoken there in
    classical times; "Boeotian dialects"?

    >I was just wondering where the non spidery Glagolitic HA could be.

    U+2C48 HERU corresponds to U+0445 HA.

    >ISO 6861:1996(E) identifies this spidery ha
    >as a HER (HERU/KHERU). HA is the modern Russian
    >name in Unicode and ISO 6861 transcriptions for
    >this rare Glagolitic HER (KHERU) (see page 5 of
    >ISO 6861:1996).

    ISO 6861 identifies the HERU and the SPIDERY HA.
    That is not the same thing as presenting an
    authoritative name for the latter.

    >(Often called KHA for Russian, which I think is a better transcription).


    >Is ISO 6861:1996(E) wrong here and is this
    >another thing than a rare variant of Glagolitic
    >HERU/KHERU ? Just want to understand.

    SPIDERY HA is a "variant" of HERU thought
    significant enough to encode by the experts who
    participated in the encoding process. LATINATE
    MYSLITE is another such variant.

    >Other small questions : any reason for the use
    >of J in some cases and Y in other cases to
    >represent the iotified letters (POKOJI/ZEMLJA
    >but YERU/YERI/YUS).

    The whole thing is a bit of a mess, what with
    Glagolitic names to transliterate, Russian
    Cyrillic names to transliterate, and Croatian
    names not to transliterate. Discussion of names
    occurred in October 2002. For some reason we
    decided to Stick with YERU and YUS, I suppose
    because of the Cyrillic block. On the other hand
    we have CI and not TSI. So the names seem to be a
    mixture of transliteration systems.

    >Incidentally N2610R says that U+2C26 had as name
    >YO in ISO 6861:1996, this is not strictly true,
    >it was JO. (I thought names were important for
    >cross-standard references).

    *shrugs* THe comment in N2610R refers to the
    name, not the spelling, I suppose. All of this is
    water under the bridge.

    >And why does Y represent a hard I (in
    >contemporean Russian phonology) in MYSLITE but
    >a soft I (according to my Russian sources) in

    Consonants are "hard" or "soft" in Slavic, not vowels.

    >See the Glagolitic letters used on page 5 of
    >for these names : BUKY ends with the same
    >glagolitic letter as GLAGOLI, this letter is
    >transcribed Y for BUKY, and I in GLAGOLI.

    This is incorrect. Please count the letters. BUKY
    has five of them in Glagolitic.

    >Why ? It this an initial izhe at the end of both words ? Initial at the end ?

    (You know, in English, we do not precede a
    question mark with a space. We don't use
    guillemets either. It makes things much easier to

    As I recall, both are called IZHE, and we called
    one INITIAL because it tends to come first and
    because we needed to have unique names.

    Michael Everson * * Everson Typography *  *

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