Re: Cyrillic guillemotleft and guillemotright

From: Kenneth Whistler (
Date: Mon May 16 2005 - 17:47:48 CDT

  • Next message: Philippe Verdy: "Re: what is Latn?"

    > On 14/05/2005 18:29, Hans Aberg wrote:
    > > At 17:44 +0100 2005/05/14, Peter Kirk wrote:
    > >
    > >> On 14/05/2005 00:19, Philippe Verdy wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> ...
    > >>> That was the first time I saw the term "guillemet" in English. Could
    > >>> I have incorrectly learned the term "guillemot" from unreliable
    > >>> sources, or from other "standards"? May be it was in glyph names for
    > >>> Postscript Level 1 fonts? I can't remember.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Quite possibly you copied the error from others. Actually Andrey and
    > >> Hans both used the incorrect form before you did in this thread, so I
    > >> am not blaming you.
    > >
    > >
    > > The error arouse from the original poster, the others copying it over.
    > > The blame arouse with the blamer. :-)

    As arousing as I find this cascade of blame, ...

    > Well, Hans, I could have pointed out that Andrey correctly quoted the
    > Postscript names "guillemotleft" and "guillemotright" (and whoever
    > decided on that standard had the right to use the name of a bird rather
    > than the name usually used by typographers),

    That would most likely be John Warnock, Doug Brotz, Bill Paxton,
    or Ed Taft. But frankly, I doubt they deliberately rode the wings
    of fancy to name quotation marks after sea birds. It was probably
    just a goof.

    > and you were I think the
    > first to use the word "guillemot" as a standalone word. But I don't
    > blame anyone for a typo, I just want to put the record straight.

    Peter has, I think managed to set the record straight, ... or possibly
    at bent angles.

    Guillemot and guillemet are *both* English words, both borrowed
    from French, but at different times.

    guillemot is pronounced 'gil-uh-mott

    guillemet used to be pronounced 'gil-uh-met (see Webster 1913),
    but among those who actually use guillemets these days, it has
    be re-franglicized as giy-'may in English.

    Oh, and for those who were wondering, guillemots are awkward
    auks, whereas guillemets are merely somewhat awkward in awk.


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