RE: Order of Infrequent Combining Marks in Thai

From: Peter Constable (
Date: Tue May 22 2007 - 08:28:55 CDT

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    From: [] On Behalf Of Richard Wordingham

    > The treatment of Hebrew hiriq and metheg
    > provides a precedent for resolving conflicts - use CGJ to override the
    > renedring effect of the canonical order.

    Indeed, there's no reason that couldn't be generalized to other cases (and so, e.g., provide a means to retain the six-way contrast involving the three above marks of my earlier example).

    > An interesting example is combining asterisk below. Now, I believe that
    > when it modifies a consonant, as in the phonetic key attached
    > (phon_key.png), a below vowel should go below the asterisk, despite the
    > canonical order. (I can't find any examples either way.) However, if it is
    > used with its Greek meaning - duplicating a previous transcription of a
    > damaged manuscript for a no-longer legible character - it would naturally
    > apply to the cluster of consonant and vowel below. My feeling is that the
    > first use woud need <U+0359, CGJ, U+0E39 SARA UU> and the latter would just
    > be <U+0E39, U+0359>. If <U+0E39, U+0359> is to mean vowel below asterisk,
    > how are we to encode asterisk below vowel?

    Well, I think you've already suggested <0e39, 0359> should display with asterisk below vowel, and that <0359, CGJ, 0e39> would display as vowel below asterisk.

    >> Btw, I'd be interested in scanned samples of publications in which the
    >> kinds of scenarios you're raising are attested.
    > The examples are all taken from the 'Modern English-Thai Dictionary'...

    Hmmm... I should try to get copies of some of the items you mention.

    > One of the Mon-Khmer languages of N.E. Thailand uses what I think of as
    > 'combining blob below' - one could probably get away with using U+0359
    > COMBINING ASTERISK BELOW for it. I saw it in several words in a Genesis
    > translation at the Rosetta Project, but I can no longer find the example,
    > and I cannot remember the name of the language.

    If you mean Kuy, I think the "blob" is nothing more exotic than phintuu.

    > Martin Hosken has already raised the issue of U+0331 COMBINING MACRON BELOW
    > and the vowels below in the context of a new orthography for one of
    > Thailand's minority languages.

    I don't recall the details. Was that on this list? Date?


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