RE: bidi on Windows and Mac

From: Jonathan Rosenne (
Date: Sat Dec 18 1999 - 07:00:47 EST

1. I said Hebrew. I did not mention Yiddish.

2. FB4F is not related to Yiddish and is not compulsory.

3. The Yiddish users active in Unicode reject the way Yiddish is being used
in Israel and in other countries and has been widely used in Europe before
the war. Those users are not represented. The Israeli standards committee
has no competence on Yiddish and has no opinion on its requirements.

Yiddish papers and books printed in Israel most often do not use these
Yiddish ligatures/characters, so personally I cannot accept that they are
required in the same way Arabic ligatures are required. Even according to
YIVO, they are only ligated under some circumstances, so this is not
automatic and must be handled at a higher level that the layout engine, i.e.
the text must be marked up in some way. Either a language attribute of
Yiddish and zwnj when not ligated, or just zwj when ligated, or some other
solution. This is a matter for the Yiddish users to propose.

I accept that they are required for a certain style of Yiddish and must be
supported by any software that wishes to support this style of Yiddish.
Since some of these requirements contradict Hebrew requirements, for example
whether two consecutive Yods should be ligated or not, I must explain that
they do not apply for Hebrew.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Everson []
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 12:39 PM
> To: Unicode List
> Subject: RE: bidi on Windows and Mac
> Ar 22:49 -0800 1999-12-17, scríobh Jonathan Rosenne:
> >1. All of these exist in the FBxx block.
> >
> >2. They are not shaped. They are composed.
> >
> >3. To clarify, none of the Hebrew ligatures are compulsory, they are
> >discretionary.
> The use of these is compulsory in Yiddish. I don't understand why there
> appears to be some longstanding battle between Israeli Standards with a
> desire for encoding purity and no interest in Yiddish at all, and the
> actual Yiddish users, who keep informing us that their needs are not being
> met.
> Michael Everson ** Everson Gunn Teoranta **
> 15 Port Chaeimhghein Íochtarach; Baile Átha Cliath 2; Éire/Ireland
> Vox +353 1 478 2597 ** Fax +353 1 478 2597 ** Mob +353 86 807 9169
> 27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn; Baile an Bhóthair; Co. Átha Cliath; Éire

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