From: Rick Cameron (Rick.Cameron@crystaldecisions.com)
Date: Mon Apr 28 2003 - 20:14:11 EDT
AAMOF, one can type Ç and ç using the US-International keyboard layout by
pressing 'C and 'c.
From: Doug Ewell [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Monday, 28 April 2003 15:06
To: Thomas Milo; email@example.com; firstname.lastname@example.org; Peter Constable
Cc: Chris Pratley; Gert-Jan Johannes; Gerard Unger
Subject: Re: Dutch IJ character
Thomas Milo <t dot milo at chello dot nl> wrote:
> What I did ask for is a Dutch-International kbd with all the features
> of the US-International one, but tailored for Dutch by the addition of
> ,C > c-cedilla and I+J > IJ using the same dead key mechanism.
The US-International keyboard already has a way to enter Ç
(Shift+AltGr+,) and ç (AltGr+,). Those AltGr keys really aren't that bad.
You get used to them, and they don't have the drawback that normal sequences
can no longer be typed without an intervening space.
A dead-key sequence where "," (comma) is the first character sounds
difficult to use. Since most commas in ordinary text are followed by a
space, the typist would have to type TWO spaces after the comma much of the
time to avoid accidental composition. Likewise, "I" as a dead key would
cause an annoying delay after every "I" is typed. And asking the major
vendors to completely overhaul the standard dead-key mechanism to use
backspace-and-replace seems like, as Thomas might say, a non-starter.
BTW, this thread marks the first time I've ever heard that Ç/ç is used in
Dutch. Michael Everson doesn't list it in his "Alphabets of Europe."
> Here in the NL popular publications advise Dutch users to avoid using
> the Dutch kbd, and to select Locale= Dutch and KBD=US-International
> instead to avoid the hardware mismatch (real or imaginary) associated
> with the Dutch Kbd.
You mean that because the Dutch use American hardware, the standard Dutch
keyboard driver (which has an @-sign on key E00 and a slash on key
E11) doesn't match the keycaps? Fine, then there's nothing wrong with the
idea of creating a new Dutch national keyboard layout.
I'd still like to know what key on Dutch typewriters was assigned to the IJ
digraph. If the answer is "none, they just type I and J," then everything
can still be accomplished in the computer age without the precomposed
> I am not fully convinced IJ should be treated as digraph. The glitch
> is that it capitalizes as a whole, and that older users try to emulate
> it with Y. And, it cannot be broken apart so that ICE CREAM on a
> corner shop is
> And, the telephone directories put IJ and Y in the same sorting
All of this can be accomplished with appropriate locale-dependent settings
instead of character encoding. (Sorry for using the L word.)
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