[totally OT] Mohawk, Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

From: Patrick Andries (Patrick.Andries@xcential.com)
Date: Fri Jul 02 2004 - 18:01:38 CDT

  • Next message: Patrick Andries: "Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic"

    Mike Ayers a écrit :

    > > From: unicode-bounce@unicode.org [mailto:unicode-bounce@unicode.org]On
    > > Behalf Of Chris Harvey
    > > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:17 AM
    > > Perhaps one could think of "Ha Tinh" as the English word for
    > > the city, like "Rome" (English) for "Roma" (Italian), or
    > > Tokyo (English) for "Tōkyō" (English transliteration of
    > "Tōkyō" is not an English transliteration of Japanese, as it
    > uses diacritics not found in English. The correct English
    > transliteration is in fact "Tokyo", which does not round trip.
    > > Japanese), or Kahnawake (English/French) for Kahnawà:ke
    > Errr - didn't the Emglish/French useage predate the Mohawk
    > alphabet? Pretty perverse case there.

    Yes, the Mohwak alphabet certainly «postdates» the French transcriptions.

    Just a few pieces of information about Mohawk (Agnier in its traditional
    French form) names around Montreal (Kanesatake North Shore, Kahnawake
    South Shore) :

        1) Heard one of the Mohawk leaders speak on the radio the other day
    and he pronounced the K of Kanesatake as Kanésatâgué for my French ear,
    which seems to be validated by the old French spelling Canessedage
    (first attested in 1695), the name was first used apparently when the
    Agniers found refuge at the foot of Mont Royal on Montréal Island than
    already occupied by the French for quite a time before the Sulpicians
    moved them to another area ouside Montreal. The French adopted Oka (an
    Algonquian name, if I recall properly) to designate the same place the
    Mohawk named Kanesatake.

        2) As far as Kahnawake is concerned the settlement occurred again
    while the French had settled the area (long story but the small group of
    Mohawk that had converted to Catholicism and found refuge around
    Montreal went through several settlements before settling in Kahnawake),
    at the same time the priests and French settlers that accompagnied the
    Mohawk called the place (now Kahnawake) Saint-François-Xavier-du-Sault
    or simply Le Sault. In Mohawk (agnier) the present-day Kahnawake was
    respectively called Kahnawake (« au rapide », « by the rapids »), in
    1676, Kahnawakon, (« dans le rapide », « in the rapids »), in 1690,
    Kanatakwenke, (« d'où on est parti », « whence we left »), in 1696 and
    Caughnawaga, in 1716 and many other spellings thereafter until 1980 when
    Kahnawake was chosen as the official spelling.

    P. A.

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