Re: Apostrophes at

From: James Kass (
Date: Fri Aug 24 2007 - 14:16:28 CDT

  • Next message: Michael S. Kaplan: "Re: Apostrophes at"

    Any font may be called upon to populate a chart.

    The attached graphic shows a word in Mongolian from a page by Andrew
    West in the application BabelPad with both default rendering and the
    rendering option which displays text as single characters. Where's
    the problem?

    The control pictures are coming from the font-in-use, which is the
    absolute *best* place for any renderer to get the outline data from.

    If the font-in-use does not support VS characters, then I expect the
    renderer to use the missing glyph from that font. That makes the
    fact that the selected font is inappropriate visible to the author/user.

    Best regards,

    James Kass

    -----Original Message-----
    >From: Mark Davis <>
    >Sent: Aug 24, 2007 9:46 AM
    >To: James Kass <>
    >Cc: Unicode Mailing List <>
    >Subject: Re: Apostrophes at
    >If that is a common perception, then we certainly need to correct that
    >For general-purpose fonts, the default ignorable code points should be
    >invisible, just like whitespace characters should be invisible. Specialized
    >fonts, such as those used for a "Show Hidden" mode or for code charts, may
    >well want to have visible glyphs for default ignorables, whitespace
    >characters, controls, confusable characters, and so on, so that people can
    >see the internals of their text. But those are very specialized cases.
    >On 8/24/07, James Kass <> wrote:
    >> Mark Davis wrote,
    >> >A similar annoyance is the fact that so many fonts don't map the
    >> >default-ignorable code points (like variation selectors) to a zero-width
    >> >invisible glyph by default.
    >> It's up to individual font developers to weigh the pros and cons
    >> of including control picture glyphs for such characters, as it
    >> should be.
    >> Mapping characters like VS to zero-width no outline glyphs would
    >> mean, for one thing, that applications which give the user the
    >> option of displaying control characters (and related items) would
    >> not be able to get appropriate outlines for such characters from
    >> the font. Opinions on this differ, as discussed on this list in years
    >> past.
    >> If an OpenType font supports a sequence which involves a VS, the
    >> user won't see the control picture. If the font doesn't support
    >> the particular sequence, it can be helpful if that is reflected in
    >> the display.
    >> Best regards,
    >> James Kass


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