From: Otto Stolz (Otto.Stolz@uni-konstanz.de)
Date: Fri Jan 11 2008 - 04:12:02 CST
Hello Waleed Oransa,
you have written:
> What we need is a standard way to encode the directionality
> of the text that all Unicode-compliant component vendors respect.
...
> That [it's still up to the authors to use BiDi embedding controls
> when and where needed] is the reason why it does not solve the
> problem because it's optional!!
With due respect, I deem your contribution inconsistent:
You are asking for a standard way to encode the directionality
(which certainly must be specified by the author), and then
you tell us that this would not solve the problem, because
the author has to explicitely specify the directionality.
> If you think in this as Arabic speaker who want to write English,
> will you be happy to add such marks by your self each time
As explained earlier in this thread, you do not have
to insert such marks “each time”: They are only needed
in two exceptional cases:
- if a paragraph starts with an insertion of opposite
directionality,
- or when punctuation marks between runs of different
directionalities belong to the inserted (rather than
the surrounding) string.
Whenever a paragraph starts with a string in the paragraph’s
basic directionality, and contains an insertion in opposite
directionality, the bidi algorithm will it render as intented.
This will account for the vast majority of cases.
Only the exceptional cases, as outlined above, will require
an additional RLM, or LRM, respectively. So the burden on the
authors is not unreasonably high.
Of course, every author of bidirectional text should pay
attention on directionality issues, and learn to unequivocally
express his intents and desires.
> or should the tools supports retaining of your original text
> direction automatic.
Of course, a well-designed editor could help with this issue:
I can imagine an editor having a global setting, “preferred
writing direction” say, that will automatically supply the
RLM (or LRM) in the beginning of an “exeptional” paragraph
starting with an insertion in the opposite direction. However,
there is nothing an editor could do with the other exception:
It is the authors task to decide, which punctuation marks
belong to the insertion, and which to its sorrounding.
> Even inserting RLE is not available in Web based application.
In HTML (a higher-level protocol), you would use the DIR
attribute on the BODY element (specifying the base directionality
of the whole document), or on any subordinate element (for a
part of the document), as desired.
Cf. <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/dirlang.html#h-8.2>.
Alternatively, you can insert any Unicode character (including
format controls) via a numerical character reference. However,
in HTML sources, the DIR attribute is recommended rather than
inserting directionality-related format control characters.
I may have misunderstood your remark: If it is referring to
data entry into a particular WWW-based form you are using,
you are subject to the whim of its author, of course. At
the very least, the form must accept Unicode data, and not
filter out the format controls. In this case, starting your
basically right-to-left data with an Arabic or Hebrew character
should mend the situation (as discussed above). In the exceptional
cases discussed above, you may be able to enter a RLM either
via a suitable keyboard, via cut-and-paste or other systems
utilities, depending on the software you are using.
> of course this is a tool problem from your point of view but
> I would say that is because no clear specification in Unicode
> text and no clear guidelines regarding respect the directionality
> as very important attribute of the text SAME as any Arabic or
> Hebrew letter!
Have you bothered to read the Unicode standard, particularly
§16.2 <http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.0.0/ch16.pdf#G16327>
and UAX #9 <http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr9/tr9-17.html>?
If you find any omissions therein (or in the Implementation Guidelines
<http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.0.0/ch05.pdf#G34785>),
then go ahead an file your suggestion for improvement, at
<http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html>. But be specific!
Your rather vague accusations will not help towards improving
the standard.
Best wishes,
Otto Stolz
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