From: Kent Karlsson (kent.karlsson14@comhem.se)
Date: Mon Jan 04 2010 - 14:18:15 CST
Den 2010-01-04 00.28, skrev "Karl Pentzlin" <karl-pentzlin@acssoft.de>:
> Am Sonntag, 3. Januar 2010 um 22:23 schrieb Kent Karlsson:
>
>>> http://www.open-std.org/JTC1/SC35/WG1/docs/info1-9995-3.pdf
>>> The revision of ISO/IEC 9995-3 ...
>>> "4 shift states" is not compatible with the group/level concept of
>
> KK> I'm surprised that the new draft standard does not have 4 levels but
> KK> sticks with the outdated 3 levels the old version had...
>
> Please do not mix "shift states" with "levels", although these
> concepts seem interchangeable as long as no more than 3 levels are
> to be considered.
?
> "Level" roughly resemble rows on a keytop while "groups" roughly
> resemble columns.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. (Maybe your keyboard
looks different from those I have used...)
> E.g., the new Finnish standard keyboard (SFS 5966, see:
> http://www.sfs.fi/ajankohtaista/tiedotteet/20081125141224.html ),
> has 4 shift states (unshifted, shifted, AltGr unshifted, AltGr shifted),
> which in ISO/IEC 9995 terms are 2 groups with 2 levels each.
I.e. four levels. Dividing it into two groups of two levels is just
a play with words.
> (btw, this is something the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator V1.4
> can handle, while afaik it cannot handle the applying of multiple
> diacritics for Vietnamese characters.)
>
> In fact, ISO/IEC 9995 allows, as an exception, the Level 3 characters
If you were serious about "two groups with two levels each", then please
remove the notion of a third level. Or just merge group 1 and group 2
into plainly four levels. (Of course leaving the layout to national
standards; as well as vendors.)
> to be displayed on the right lower corner on the keytop when there is
> only one group. This is due to historical reasons, like for historical
> reasons there are precomposed characters in Unicode.
>
> KK> And (still, though changed) the "common second group". Thanks, but no
> KK> thanks.
>
> Of course, nobody excepts everybody to like everything; nevertheless I
> miss any argument in your statement.
A "second group" (or third group, or whatever) with a jumble of characters
with no mnemonic connection to what is on the (group 1) level 1 and level 2
(for each keyboard layout) is not helpful. For rarely used characters where
one has no mnemonic connection to the (group 1) levels 1/2 layout, then it
is probably better to use a character picker applet of some sort, rather
than this "common second group". Note that most keytops only get a single
character printed on it, in some cases two characters. I don't expect that
to change much (for aesthetic reasons, leaving open for keyboard layout
changes, ...).
/kent k
> - Karl
>
>
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