From: Gerrit Sangel (email@example.com)
Date: Wed Jan 06 2010 - 22:49:31 CST
Concerning this question, I always wonder why it is necessary to add
layer over layer over layer to these kind of keyboard layouts. Wouldn't
it be better if latin based keyboard layouts were something similar like
Type “alpha” and get α, type “Theta” and get Θ. Type “punctuation”
(something like the japanese “kigou”) and be able to select all
different punctuation and stuff. Write Hangeul and get Han’gŭl, type
Pin1yin1 and get Pīnyīn. Write Kyoto and get Kyōto. You could also add
smart quotations directly into the input method, not just in the Word
I think, this system is
a) more intuitive - everybody knows that α is pronounced/written as alpha
b) you don't need to remember the position of different characters.
c) you can still add much more characters than with a keyboard with 10
layers or even more.
d) Because the vast majority of the characters proposed for this kind of
“super layouts” is used extremely seldom during writing one language (I
think, it is often only for names), it does not slow down the writing
process if you sometimes have to type e.g. an o and check the list if
you want ö, ó, ò, ō, ǒ e.g. If you include a dictionary with popular
names, you don't even need to do that, because Nánjīng would (i think)
be the only possible thing to choose if you write Nanjing.
If you want to maybe switch to a language where you need these “special”
characters more often, just write something like
“Currently I am writing English and now i want to write French de<PRESS
KEY>mit vielen möglichen Umlauten en<PRESS KEY> and now I can write
if you do it like this, it could be extremely easy to switch even the
keyboard layout to another language inside the writing process. Just
type the language code, press some key (e.g. caps lock) and the layout
is automatically switched to a language which makes the characters
available easily there.
Am 05.01.2010 11:39, schrieb Doug Ewell:
> Karl Pentzlin <karl dash pentzlin at acssoft dot de> wrote:
>> DE> How do I access this third level using a standard 101-key
>> keyboard, if
>> DE> the FDIS leaves the mechanism undefined but suggests a new key?
>> The mechanisms are defined in another part of the standard, ISO/IEC
>> 9995-2 "Alphanumeric Section":
>>>> 8.3.2 Level 3 select
>>>> For keyboards with characters allocated at level 3, at least one
>>>> key for the function Level 3 select (frequently
>>>> marked "Alt Gr") shall be provided.
>> AltGr, as you surely know, is found on many keyboards where the
>> "Right Alt" is found on US keyboards. Thus, on US keyboards, the
>> "Right Alt" is the first choice to employ this function (leaving the
>> "Left Alt" for the pure "Alt" function).
> OK, we are dealing with the same "group vs. level" terminology problem
> that Kent and Michael were talking about. I use AltGr and Shift+AltGr
> every day, even though the key just says "Alt" on my U.S. English
> What I was trying to say, applied to the FDIS 9995-3 keyboard, was
> this: Appendix C shows a new "current common secondary Group layout"
> which includes the following key assignments for key D03 (the "E" key):
> Level 1 (unshifted): œ U+0153 latin small ligature oe
> Level 2 (shifted): Œ U+0152 latin capital ligature oe
> Level 3 (extra): ◌̆ U+0306 combining breve
> My question was how to reach the so-called "extra" level 3.
>> The "Group select" is dealt with in 8.3.3. The "dedicated key" is
>> only one of the possibilities described there.
>> In fact, a "Group select" is nothing else than a "dead key", only
>> that the destination character can be any character (specified by the
>> layout), rather than being restricted to precomposed character with a
>> specific diacritical mark.
>> This "dead key" can be a dedicated new key or any free AltGr
>> combination on your US keyboard.
> OK, that makes things a lot more understandable. I can see now how to
> implement this. I just wish it had been made clear before now.
>> (It also can be the key combination "Shift+AltGr", to be released
>> before the next key pressing rather than to be pressed
>> simultaneously; this is recommended but not prescribed in 9995-2
>> section 8.3.3.)
> I already use plain E, Shift+E, AltGr+E, and Shift+AltGr+E. So do
> most Windows keyboards. So a fifth level -- or if you prefer, a third
> level within the second group -- needs to be something other than
> Shift+AltGr+something. If it's conformant to make this, say, AltGr+/
> followed by E, then we've got a deal.
> Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org
> RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @ http://is.gd/2kf0s
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