Re: Tifinagh - extension for complete common Berber alphabet isomorphic with Latin

Date: Tue Feb 16 2010 - 08:35:08 CST

  • Next message: Hans Aberg: "Re: Tifinagh - extension for complete common Berber alphabet isomorphic with Latin"

    Thanks for reading the proposal and for the feedback. A couple of points:

    - My personal suggestions for orthographic reform apply only to the Latin
    script. The only connection with Tifinagh is that the scripts share
    features, since they are used for the same purposes. For the Latin script,
    I am suggesting how to allow each existing Tuareg language variant to
    be written the same way when it straddles borders, and to allow any
    future converged variety to be written in a way consistent with Northern

    - The suggestions for Tifinagh, by contrast, concern the most economical
    way of making *existing usage* practical in Unicode, while keeping the
    same advantages as my Latin suggestions for the future.

    - You are correct that the controversial part is to aim for a unified
    reference alphabet, leaving differences to the fonts, and having separate
    specific code points for particular historical/regional variant letters
    like the Berber academy forms where they need to be shown explicitly.
    (I live in Algeria in Kabylie and actually prefer the Berber Academy
    Discussion about this would be a good thing.

    Since when you tabulate the different regional alphabets they all line
    up, each having letters (usually the same ones, even) for the same sounds,
    I think my approach is a sensible proposition. Otherwise it's like encoding
    Gothic A-Z and Italic A-Z separately.
    All that's needed is 2 extra letters, plus combining diacritics for vowels.
    The existing Tuareg neo-Tifinagh vowel system in use that allows minimal
    extension to the IRCAM set and the most consistency is that of the APT
    project in Niger. I can scan some examples of their publications.

    Yes, the IRCAM letters are already widely used, with keyboard support,
    but my proposal would not affect that.

    The Berber academy letters are used in print and on signs, but don't
    have common tools (Kabylie uses Latin letters, and Tifinagh letters,
    if used, are bodged together with ad-hoc tools, and are often incorrect!).
    Also, my proposal would leave those letters alone - they could still
    be specified ad-hoc, but standard tools would generate IRCAM codes,
    and the font would give the Berber Academy appearance.

    ----- PŮVODNÍ ZPRÁVA -----
    Od: "Doug Ewell" <>
    Komu: "Unicode Mailing List" <>
    Předmět: Re: Tifinagh - extension for complete common Berber alphabet
    Datum: 16.2.2010 - 14:34:51

    > <p underscore j underscore anderson at volny dot cz>
    > wrote:
    > > This is about finding the best way to encode current
    > > use. I only
    > > > mentioned future usage because my proposal also considers
    > > possible
    > > > convergence of regional orthographies and of the
    > > language varieties.
    > >
    > It is still one man's attempt at Tuareg orthographic
    > reform. I read
    > through the proposal and, despite the references, it
    > is very much a
    > personal project. There isn't really a precedent for
    > adding new
    > characters that are only attested via a single, present-day
    > proposal.
    > The paper also suggests changing the existing Unicode
    > encoding model for
    > Tifinagh, by ignoring the assigned "Berber academy"
    > code points and
    > instead moving the problem of choosing alternate glyphs
    > onto
    > country-specific fonts. This is likely to be controversial
    > with those
    > who developed the original model and those who have
    > already used it.
    > Hans Aberg <haberg at math dot su dot se> wrote:
    > > There were a plethora of math characters:
    > I doubt I am the only one who fails to see an analogy
    > between the
    > mathematical compatibility characters and an effort
    > to encode novel
    > letters to support a proposed orthographic reform.
    > --
    > Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA |
    > RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @
    > ­

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