Re: UTS#10 (collation) : French backwards level 2, and word-breakers.

From: Frédéric Grosshans (frederic.grosshans@m4x.org)
Date: Fri Jul 30 2010 - 12:06:16 CDT

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    Le vendredi 30 juillet 2010 à 08:36 -0700, Kenneth Whistler a écrit :
    > I suspect that many French users would be utterly unable to
    > tell a "correct" ordering of all the modèle, modelé words
    > from an "incorrect" one, or would frankly much care in practice,
    > as long as they could find what they were looking for in the list.

    I agree with you on this, and I would like to see a real-life example
    (in wikipedia or wiktionnary for example) where it should matters.

     However, there is an order which is "obviously incorrect" for a french
    speaker, to the point that its sends the things to the place where they
    are unfindable : the binary order, currently used by Wikipedia, where
    a<e<z<è. For a french (or at least for me), separating e form é and è
    is similar (i.e. as unintuitive) as separating e and E.

    This is a common problem for me (I often struggle to find a file with an
    accent on my computer, because I tend to forget that z<é), and I think
    an example obviously showing it would be nice.

    If you look at the list
    http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3AToutes+les
    +pages&from=Modele&to=Mod%C3%A8ne&namespace=0

    you will see an order like :

    ...
    Modele atomique de Thomson
    Modele bio-psycho-social
    Modele christallerien
    Modele cognitif
    Modele conceptuel des traitements
    ...
    A very long interval, going through things like
    Modification
    ...
    Modulation
    ....
    Module
    ...
    Modèle atomique de Thomson
    Modèle binomial
    Modèle bio-psycho-social
    Modèle black-scholes
    Modèle booléen
    Modèle christallérien
    Modèle climatique
    Modèle cognitif

    while my intuition would bring the modèle and modele together. I guess
    it's the order 2.3 of your technical note (but I'm not sure). I think
    the order 2.2 would still keep e<u<è, which remains strange and close to
    unusable.

            Frédéric Grosshans

    PS: However, I agree that the words fleur de lys, fleur-de-lys, fleur de
    lis are a particularly nice example to illustrate a topic on french ;-)

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