L2/00-007

Minutes of the NCITS/L2 meeting # 179
February 2-3, 2000 in San Jose

2000-02-08

1.                Joint meeting with UTC  January 31 – February 3, 2000 

Agenda            [00-003]

Motions           [00-004]

Minutes          [00-005]

2.                Opening of L2 meeting - remarks from the chair

This is the first day with all even numbers since 28. August 888.

Please give/send me the documents in electronic form for distribution. 

The handed out documents will not be sent again – don't throw them away.

3.                Administrative agenda

3.1.           Attendance and membership

3.1.1.         Membership list  

Paid as of 1/31/2000:  IBM, Lotus, RLG, Sun, Unicode, HP, Compac.

NCR has indicated its interest in joining L2.  Its representative (Albert Maghbouleh) is counted as an observer at this meeting.  An invoice is being sent to NCR (Gary Roberts). 

3.1.2.         Members in jeopardy

Nobody is in jeopardy at this meeting. 

3.1.3.         Attendance

Name

Company

L2
1/31/00

UTC
1/31/00

UTC
2/1/00

UTC
2/2/00

UTC
1/3/00

L2
2/3/00

Aliprand, Joan

RLG

 

 

 

CP

CP

P

Becker, Joe

Xerox

 

CP

CP

CP

 

 

Constable, Peter

SIL Int'l

 

AM

AM

AM

AM

 

Davis, Mark

IBM - Taligent

A2

OF

OF

OF

OF

(A2)

Freytag, Asmus

Unicode

 

OF/2

OF

OF

OF

P

Hart, Edwin

SHARE

P

AM

AM

AM

AM

P

Hiura, Hideki

Sun Microsystems

P

CP

CP

 

 

 

Honomichl, Lloyd

Novell (Int'l.com)

 

CP

CP

CP

 

 

Jenkins, John

Apple

P

CP

CP

CP

CP

 

Kobayashi, Tatsuo

Justsystem

 

CP

CP

 

 

 

Ksar, Mike

HP

P

CP

CP

CP

CP

P

Long, Wai-Man

Compaq

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maghbouleh, Albert

NCR

O

CA

CA

CA

CA

O

McGowan, Rick

Apple

A

CA

CA

CA

CA

A

Moore, Lisa

IBM

A

CA

CA

CA

CA

(A)

Sargent, Murray

Microsoft

A

CP

CP

CP

 

 

Suignard, Michel

Microsoft

P

CA

CA

CA

CP

P

Texin, Tex

Progress Software

P

CP

CP

CP

CP

P

Umamaheswaran

IBM

P

CP

CP

CP

CP

P

Whistler, Ken

Sybase

P

CP

CP

CP

CP

P

Winkler, Arnold

Unisys

P

CP

CP

CP

CP

P

Wolf, Misha

Reuters

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yang, Jianping

Oracle

P

CP

CP

CP

CP

P

 

For the voting:  10 members are present.  Missing:  Sun, Reuters, Compaq, RLG (present 2/3/2000)

 

3.2.           Officers for L2

3.2.1.         Training needed for VC and IR

Next training on the west coast is in Eureka, CA on July 17, 2000

Lisa and Michel are asked to register as soon as possible.

3.3.           Approval of meetings minutes from October 1999 [99-258]

Approved, no comments

3.4.           Action items follow-up  [SD-2]

The action items have been reviewed in the combined technical meeting of L2 and UTC.  The new list will be posted when completed.

3.5.           Registration of new documents and assignment to agenda

Doc. #

Subject

Source

Date

Project

L2/00-001

Complete list of 1999 documents [914 kB]

List in PDF format for printing - no document links

Winkler

2000-01-01

admin

L2/00-002

Mathematical symbols – new proposal 2000-01-26

Barbara Beeton

2000-01-09

396-D

L2/00-003

Agenda for UTC meeting #82, San Jose

Lisa Moore

2000-01-04

Admin

L2/00-004

Motions from UTC #82 in San Jose

Lisa Moore

 

Admin

L2/00-005

Minutes of UCT #82 in San Jose

Lisa Moore

 

Admin

L2/00-006

Agenda for the NCITS/L2 meeting #179, San Jose

Winkler

2000-01-20

Admin

L2/00-007

Minutes from the L2 meeting #179 in San Jose

Winkler

 

Admin

L2/00-008
(scanned pdf)

Extension of TR 15285  (.doc format, 1034 kB large)
expert contribution

T.K. Sato
SC2 N2148

2000-01-05

1141-L

L2/00-009

Khmer update (Amendment 25)
expert contribution

T.K. Sato 
SC2 N2149

2000-01-05

396-D

L2/00-010

Minutes from the SC2/WG2 meeting #37 in Copenhagen, September 13-16, 1999

UMA
SC2/WG2 N2103

2000-01-05

Admin

L2/00-011

Action items from the SC2/WG2 meeting #37

UMA

2000-01-05

Admin

L2/00-012

Further discussion on the ZWL

Everson

2000-01-06

396-D

L2/00-013

Peso sign and Peseta sign (U-20A7)

T.K. Sato
SC2/WG2 N2156

2000-01-06

396-D

L2/00-014

2nd call for SC2/WG2 #38 meeting in Beijing, March 21 – 24, 2000 (replaces L2/99-392).  New logistics!

Mike Ksar
SC2/WG2 N2155

2000-01-10

Admin

L2/00-015

Preliminary agenda for WG2 #38

Mike Ksar

2000-01-10

Admin

L2/00-016

NCITS – reaffirmation of X3.83 - USA Sponsorship Procedures for ISO Registration According to ISO 2375

NCITS
IT/00-0010

2000-01-05

13-M

L2/00-017

Communication from Armenia (SARM)

Levon H. Aslanyan

2000-01-17

396-D

L2/00-018

ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 2 information to ETSI/SMG4 on character coding

K.I. Larsson
SC2/WG2 N2157

2000-01-09

396-D

L2/00-019

Canonical XML, Version 1 – for comments

W3C

2000-01-19

I18n

L2/00-020

Request for JTC 1 Approval of Category C Liaison between SC 2 and the (W3C)

JTC1 N6040

2000-01-18

admin

L2/00-021

IBM comments on ISO 10646-2 
(move Ext. B into the BMP)

IBM, Microsoft

2000-01-21

1313-L

L2/00-022

Summary of Voting on SC 2 N 3370, Proposed SC 2 Resolution on Transfer of ISO/TC 46/SC 4 Character Sets Projects

SC2 N3401

2000-01-28

396-D

L2/00-023

ZWJ contradictions, ZWL (Lloyd Anderson)

Ken Whistler

2000-01-24

396-D

L2/00-024

Modified proposal for new JCS characters and reply to Unicode/L2 comments (L2/99-365)

K. Shibano

2000-01-31

396-D

L2/00-025

Extending ZWJ and ZWNJ for legation

Mark Davis

2000-01-25

396-D

L2/00-026

Five comments on ZWL and ZWJ

Lloyd Anderson

2000-01-25

396-D

L2/00-027

Properties for unassigned characters

Mark Davis

2000-01-25

396-D

L2/00-028

Editorial defects in AFII character tables (pdf) and additional corrigenda in ISO/IEC 10646-1 2nd ed.

Bruce Paterson

2000-01-26

396-D

L2/00-029

CEN approval of ENV 13710 European Ordering Rules – country comments

Thorgeir Sigudsson
CEN N933

2000-01-26

I18n

L2/00-030

Background information on Japanese characters

Yoshi Enomoto

2000-01-31

396-D

L2/00-031

Comments on Ligature Control

John Jenkins

2000-01-31

396-D

L2/00-032

Compatibility Ideographs in the Unicode Standard

John Jenkins

2000-02-01

396-D

L2/00-033

Encoding for STIX math symbols

Ken Whistler

2000-02-01

396-D

L2/00-034

In-process Private Use Characters

Michel Suignard

2000-02-02

396-D

L2/00-035

UTF-5, a transformation format for DNS I18N

IETF draft

2000-01-28

396-D

L2/00-036

Expert contribution on the placement of additional unified ideographs from JIS X0213, HK, and Korea

Uma
Sargent

2000-02-03

396-D

L2/00-037

US comments on ISO/IEC 10646-2 CD ballot in SC2 N3393

Michel Suignard

2000-02-03

396-D

 

3.6.           Approval of agenda [L2/00-006]

The agenda was approved.

3.7.           Next meetings

April 25-28, 2000                       San Jose, Microsoft

August 8-11, 2000                     Boston, Progress

November 7-10, 2000                west (changed)

January 29-February 1, 2001      west

Agreed

4.                Reports from the SC2 and SC22 meetings:

4.1.           SC22/WG20 meeting in Copenhagen, November 8-12, 1999

Resolutions [99-363]

Ken Whistler reports from the WG20 meeting, especially about the ordering standard that will go for FDIS ballot in February 2000.  It has been carefully synchronized with the Unicode collation algorithm, so that ordering results will be the same (no tailoring in 14651). 

Next WG20 meeting is in Québec, May 22-26, 2000

5.                Ballots

5.1.           Ballots to vote :

Doc #

Source

Subject

Type

YES

NO

ABS

N.V.

Com.

99-366

SC2 N3393

Text for CD ballot of ISO/IEC 10646 part 2

CD

9

1

0

4

y

99-370

Winkler

Letter ballot for CD 10646-2

CD

 

 

 

 

 

00-020

JTC1 N6040

Request for JTC 1 Approval of Category C Liaison between SC 2 and the (W3C)

Liaison approval

10

0

0

4

y

00-016

IT/00-0010

Re-affirmation of X3.83
L2 proposes to re-affirm for archival !

Re-affirmation

10

0

0

4

y

 

5.2.           Ballot reports:

L2/99-356

Text for CD ballot ISO CD 2375

SC2 N3390

1999-11-15

No

 

L2/99-357

Text for FCD ballot ISO/IEC FCD 8859-16 – Latin alphabet #10

SC2 N3389

1999-11-15

No

 

L2/99-368

Letter ballot for CD 2375 (see L2/99-356)

Winkler

1999-11-24

(no)

L2/99-369

Letter ballot for FCD 8859-16 – Latin #10

Winkler

1999-11-24

(no)

L2/99-380

Proposal for a New Work item (NP) to amend the Korean part in ISO/IEC 10646-1 (from the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea)

JTC1 N5999
DPRK

1999-12-07

No

L2/99-362

Proposed modification of SC2 POW

SC2 N3387
JTC1 N5987

1999-11-09

No

 

5.3.           Requests for comments on registration :

L2/99-372

!!! 3.0 MB !!!

Application for registration #228 – Japanese graphic character set, Plane 1

SC2 N3394

1999-11-25

396-D

L2/99-373
!!! 1.8 MB !!!

Application for registration #229 – Japanese graphic character set, Plane 2

SC2 N3395

1999-11-25

1313-L

UTC/L2 agreed on comments and they were sent to NCITS on 2000-02-01

5.4.           Comments on registrations

None since the last meeting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

6.                Voting on joint UTC/L2 meeting recommendations [00-004]

L2 approves the motions from the combined UTC/L2 technical meeting with the exception, that Apple votes against the motion on mathematics.

7.                Positions for the SC2 and SC22 working group meetings

7.1.           SC2/WG2 (Beijing, March 20-23, 2000)

As defined in the motions of the combined meeting [00-004]

8.                Delegates to SC2 and SC22/WG20 meetings

8.1.           SC2/WG2 (Beijing, March 21-24, 2000)

Whistler, Suignard, Kung, Winkler, Ksar (as convenor)

Add Asmus Freytag, Winkler very unlikely.

8.2.           SC22/WG20 (Quebec, May 22-26, 2000)

Whistler, Davis, Winkler (as convenor)

Send in new nominations for meeting in Greece:  September 11-20, 2000

8.3.           SC2 in Greece (19-20 September 2000)

Whistler, Davis, Moore, Suignard (HoD),Hart, Freytag, Winkler, Aliprand, Ksar

8.4.           SC2/WG2 in Greece (11-15 September 2000)

Whistler, Davis, Moore, Suignard,Hart, Freytag, Winkler, Aliprand, Ksar as convenor

8.5.           SC2/WG3 in Greece (18 September 2000)

Whistler, Davis, Moore, Suignard,Hart, Freytag, Winkler, Aliprand, Ksar;

Discussionabout US being the back-up for the SC2 meeings.  Microsoft would be the back-up for the US.  Ken will check the possibilities to host.

8.6.           Re-affirmation of X3.83 for 5 years  [00-016] or update ?

Affirm with recommendation for archival – if necessary, wait with reporting this decision until NCITS has approved the change in procedures for archiving standards.

8.7.           Information that ISO 2022:1994 and ISO 10538:1991 [SC2 N3399] have been re-affirmed.

FYI

8.8.           Proposed SC 2 Resolution on Transfer of ISO/TC 46/SC 4 Character Sets Projects  [00-022, 99-266, 99-309]

Joan reports.  6 character sets from the library group have been transferred to SC2 since they are represented in 10646.

Registrations for additional character sets from TC46 are needed, but help up by our request that they map to 10646. 

Joan will go to the TC46 meeting in Berlin.  Joan and Ed and Everson have checked these mappings and can submit them to the joint advisory committee of the registration authority.  The mappings will also be discussed at the TC46 and hopefully approved.  Idea is to invite Randy Barry as an expert at the joint advisory group meeting. 

Some characters will not be mapped in TC46 sets.  Latin contractions in TC46 standards are also a issue.  TC46 will discuss the options (map, not map, compatibility mapping). 

Leave the rest there, don't change them, concentrate on the mapping. 

8.9.           ZWL, ZWJ, ZWNJ issue [L2/00-023 , L2/00-024 , L2/99-365 , L2/00-025 ,
 L2/00-026 ]

Handled in the UTC meeting.  No ZW(N)L, discuss further next time.

8.10.       ISO/IEC 10646-1 2nd edition:  editorial defects in AFII tables and other corrigenda  [L2/00-028]

Done in the UTC

8.11.       Country comments to CEN/TC304 preENV 13710 – European ordering rules  [00-029]

Done in the UTC meeting.  Just information.  Should be a "profile" of ISO 14651. 

8.12.       Remembering Ed Smura

Done in the UTC meeting.  Silent minute, eulogies (Becker, Hart, Ksar), plaque and condolence card. 

8.13.       Japanese, HongKong and Korean unified ideographs  (Paper from Uma and Sargent L2/00-036)

Uma presents the paper that reflects Option #6 from the UTC meeting list.  Advantage for the existing implementations.  Might come up in the Beijing meeting – the US should be prepared for a firm position.  Proposed improvements of the paper:  add example for

Ken: opposed.  Differes from UTC proposal.  Numbers:  open room 6400.  1558 characters ideographs, 1100 math requested – 40% of the free space. 

Rick: opposed to any more ideographs on the BMP

Mark:  IRG is crucial in this situation. 

Asmus:  is there any information if other countries might bring this forward ?  Canada possibly yes.  This has not been discussed in Canada and Uma expects support.

Mike:  Japanese position is important also, there is no contribution. 

Jenkins:  IRG seems not to be enthusiastic about this proposal.  Taiwan and China have no characters in the proposal. 

Suignard:  we can not speculate on IRG opinion.

Orita:  he wants to get Japan to support this proposal. 

Uma:  Propose to approve this paper (L2/00-036) with the editorial modifications and forward it to WG2 .  3:6:0:5  (Asmus is not in the room, Joan Aliprand has come to the meeting).  Motion failed.

9.                Adjournment

Thanks to Apple for hosting the meeting.  Meeting is adjourned.

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