Re: Question about the directionality of "Old Hungarian" (document N3531)

From: philip chastney (philip_chastney@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Nov 03 2008 - 04:53:59 CST

  • Next message: Michael Everson: "Re: Question about the directionality of "Old Hungarian" (document N3531)"

    the Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language (p187) defines 3 types:

    one where the order of the words within the line is reversed,
    a second where the order of the letters within the words is also reversed,
    and a third where the glyphs themselves are reversed as well

    /phil

    --- On Sun, 2/11/08, Peter Zilahy Ingerman, PhD <pzi@ingerman.org> wrote:
    From: Peter Zilahy Ingerman, PhD <pzi@ingerman.org>
    Subject: Re: Question about the directionality of "Old Hungarian" (document N3531)
    To: unicode@unicode.org
    Date: Sunday, 2 November, 2008, 4:09 PM

      
      
    Perhaps I'm being confused ... it's been a long time ... but I seem to
    recall that there are, actually, two types of boustrophedon.

    If memory serve me correctly, the older type mirrored the characters on
    the right-to-left line, but the newer type didn't, although the line
    was, nonetheless, written from right to left.

    But I may well be wrong.

    Peter

    Kent Karlsson wrote:

      Szabolcs Szelp wrote:
      
      
        Not considering bustrophaedon,
    even in the described standard behaviour of OH of having the
    characters mirrored when overriden LTR, I believe it is problematic
    that one has to replace the punctuation characters.

    Usually one would think of the LTR and RTL in OH as the same text with
    the same information, ie. the same string of characteres, only
    displayed differently (i.e. other text-flow direction, and mirrored).
    So why do we have to use other characters?
        
      
      Bidi (in the Unicode sense) and bustrophedon (while in a quite different
    way "bidirectional") are unrelated and should not be conflated in any way.

      
      
        The passage in the current proposal authored by Michael and me
    contains the passage above cited by Karl, it was included on grounds
    of verbal communication of Michael about the preference "by the
    committee".

    However, I do believe that it should be open for discussion.

    Karl suggested (privately) having the punctuation included in the OH
    block, alongside with the Bidi_Mirrored=Yes property.
        
      
      Naa. Bidi_Mirrored is for handling Arabic, Hebrew and similar scripts.
    It's NOT for handling bustrophedon, which mirrors *all* glyphs (once)
    on every second line. Bidi override controls never mirror characters
    which have Bidi_Mirrored=FALSE. Also the bidi overrides do not go well
    together with bustrophedon and automatic line breaking. Bustrophedon
    is simply a quite different beast from Arabic/Hebrew/etc. Bustrophedon
    should simply graphically mirror the entier line, every second line.

            /kent k

      
      

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