Re: [OT] Istanbul [was: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic]

From: Peter Kirk (
Date: Wed Jul 07 2004 - 06:01:37 CDT

  • Next message: Patrick Andries: "Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic"

    On 07/07/2004 11:22, Philipp Reichmuth wrote:

    > ...
    > Are you sure about the Turks and the initial consonant clusters? I
    > always thought it depends on the actual cluster structure. Modern
    > Turkish at least has loanwords such as "brokoli", "graten" or the
    > notorious "spor" where the problem is the word-*final* cluster, not
    > the word *initial* one. While Turkic roots usually do not begin with
    > consonant clusters, it appears to be OK in loans.

    There are certainly no word initial consonant clusters in native Turkic
    words. Looking at the specific ST cluster in my Turkish-English
    dictionary, there are a number of words listed, but they are all
    transparently loans from western languages and the kinds of words which
    were probably borrowed in the 20th century: stabilize, stadyum/stat,
    staj, stajyer, stand, standart, star, statik, statü, statüko, sten,
    steno(grafi), step ("steppe"), stepne ("spare tyre"), stereo(foni(k)),
    stereotip, steril(ize/izasyon), sterlin, stetoskop, setyşın ("station
    wagon"), stil, stilistik, stilo, stok(çu/lamak), stop, stopaj, stor,
    strateji(k), stratosfer, stratus, streptokok, streptomisin, stres
    (medical), striptiz(ci), stüdyo. But here are the corresponding words
    with word initial added vowels: ıstampa, ıstavroz/istavroz (from Greek
    stavros), istasyon, istatistik(çi), istavrit (a fish), istep ("steppe"),
    istim, istimbot, istiridye (? "oyster"), istop, usturmaça (a nautical
    term probably from "storm"). These words seem to be rather older loans,
    some perhaps 19th century but ıstavroz/istavroz is surely much earlier,
    also istavrit if that is a loan from Greek stavrit- as seems likely.

    These are complete lists for ST but the same happens with other
    consonant clusters e.g. SP, SV.

    Peter Kirk (personal) (work)

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