From: Ngwe Tun (ngwestar@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Jul 05 2008 - 03:38:11 CDT
Dear Martin Hosken
Thanks for your valuable explanation and great effort on reading deeply our
discussion.
I'm clear in my doubts. I will find out resources for ethnic language
examples.
Best Rgds
Ngwe Tun
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Martin Hosken <martin_hosken@sil.org> wrote:
> Dear Ngwe Tun,
>
> > >> "The new Unicode font not only includes the Myanmar language, but also
> > >>> other ethnic languages that are accepted by Unicode Consortium.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Unicode encodes characters that are used for writing languages. It
> does
> > >> not "accept" languages.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Be fair, Doug. You don't speak Burmese. They mean, of course,
> "characters
> > > that support Burmese and also a number of minority languages in the
> Union of
> > > Myanmar".
> > >
> > Why you write *Be Fair*? Is it not true? How strange another sentence in
> > burmese in their article? Ireland company collecting Myanmar Glyphs and
> > Techmonation Company developed programs? Could it be done? Do you know
> other
> > ethnics language too? Only Native Speaker can be done for their Native
> > Language. I can accept that Myanmar Native speaker organized burmese and
> > ethnics glyphs and programs the Ireland company? Even you missed some
> > ethnics characters in past proposal, wasn't it? You amended several
> > characters again and again in Myanmar Block.
>
> While it is true that very few proposals are written by native language
> speakers, it is amazing how good a job the Unicode community is doing in
> getting characters encoded that will support the various languages. They do
> this by talking to people who understand how these langauges are written and
> then proposing the necessary characters for inclusion. We can only add
> characters for the languages and scripts we know about and so they get added
> in groups. There are more still to come for the Myanmar block, so keep
> watching :)
>
> >
> > At present, Shan, Mon and Kayin font types will be included in this
> > >>> Unicode font," he said.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> For clarity, Unicode also does not specify, produce, or approve fonts.
> > >>
> > >
> > > The article refers to a font which is being developed that supports
> Unicode
> > > 5.1 characters.
> >
> > We have already had Myanmar Unicode Fonts. There are 3 free fonts and 2
> of 3
> > fonts are released as open source license. So, Everyone can be used those
> > fonts in software and web sites. But There are no specification for Mon,
> > Shan and Karen encoding. You can make new fonts for any software or
> specific
> > web site. But It shouldn't be monopolized the public interested web sites
> > like wikipedia or google or youtube or facebook.
>
> Yes it is true that there is no UTN#11 type description for each language,
> but most of the principles in UTN#11 apply very nicely to minority
> languages. And where I hear of examples where other information is required,
> I will be happy to add that information to UTN#11.
>
> > > The meeting is, as you say, in October, and Htoo Myint Naung is,
> prudently,
> > > awaiting the results of PDAM 6.2 before proceeding with early
> > > implementation.
>
> Interesting that supporting the current PDAM 6.2 extra characters will
> require a different font style. Since those characters are only needed for a
> group of languages that require a different font style. So in fact, they
> don't need to be supported in a pan block font if a developer doesn't want
> to.
>
> > > The present font used in the Myanmar version of Wikipedia is Padauk,
> > >>> which was written according to the Unicode 4.1 standard,
>
> Just to clarify one point in the article: Padauk was one of the first fonts
> to provide complete block support for Unicode 5.1 and in its latest version
> 2.4 is a strong font for handling the whole block.
>
> > I got some question after reading. To clarify the truth as in.
> > >>> 1) Had Unicode published or released representation of Mon, Shan and
> > >>> Karen encoding specification document like UTN#11?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > There is no UTN, but there are now Mon, Shan, and Karen characters
> encoded.
> > >
> > >
> > > If it's not listed in the "Unicode Technical Notes" page, there is no
> UTN
> > >> on this. You might check with the authors of UTN #11 to see if they
> would
> > >> consider updating their paper to add a discussion of these additional
> > >> languages written with the Myanmar script.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Far as I know there aren't major issues involving the new characters.
> >
> > so, In Mon, Shan and Karen has different storage order and still karen
> ppl
> > are arguing dot below position. How do you measure major or minor? For
> > proposal writer, It might not be major? You will not type or use in
> daily.
> > We must use those character in daily purpose. Don't mentioned urgency
> level
> > comparison by your soul?
>
> One of the problems is that stylistic variation (as opposed to encoding
> variation) across the various languages require either separate fonts or
> language tagging or feature support by applications.
>
> > > 2) Will Unicode Consortium meeting decide Fonts for Burmese, Shan, Mon
> > >>> and Karen?
> > >>
> > >> Unicode does not "decide" fonts. They encode characters, whose glyphs
> may
> > >> subsequently be added to fonts.
> > >
> > > Yes, I don't know what Ngwe Tun is asking here.
> >
> > > :) I'm not Unicode Member yet. That's why I'm asking here. If Unicode
> > > Consoritum will decide Fonts in internal meeting, I will be the part of
> > > Unicode Member. I will pay for Unicode Members Fees.
>
> As stated. Unicode doesn't decide on fonts. It just produces a chart with a
> 'representative' glyph which hopefully is a fair representation of what a
> character looks like in general. It doesn't certify fonts as being
> conformant. It doesn't suggest appropriate fonts. It doesn't say anything
> about specific fonts.
>
> > Hey It's cross-road of Unicode and Wikipedia. So, There are a lot of
> > localziation experts subscribed that mailing list. They can answer good
> > explanation here. You may not answer good question here because you are
> one
> > of font developer for Myanmar Wikipedia. skip it, Others people will
> answer
> > more detail. I sincerely mentioned that it's out of question. But someone
> > may know about Wikimedia Foundation practice.
>
> For those interested, there is also a rather sophisticated piece of
> javascript that can be used to say: oh look this browser doesn't support the
> font I want properly, I'll generate strings as images and download those. It
> does it automatically and surprisingly efficiently.
>
> Yours,
> Martin Hosken
> SIL International Script Technologist
>
-- In Burmese; Ngwe mean 1) Silver 2) Money 3) Second Awards; Tun mean 1) Light 2) be prominent.
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